1) Eric B. Rakim's presentation, in this mailing list, of his case for including these articles and of the behavior of others, fell far short of exhibiting a NPOV. It was extremely assertive advocacy. It should always be possible for any party to a dispute to describe the points in contention in a way that is _acceptable_ to other parties.
2) IMHO listing articles on VfD is indeed slightly hostile to the author and it is understandable that an author may get angry about it. However, it is not by any stretch of the imagination "vandalism."
3) I find that I have developed a bad habit, which I am trying to cure, of discussing articles in VfD as if the author were not present.
4) Every contributor really needs to accept _in his heart_ the note on the submission page "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly... then do not submit it."
5) Perhaps this warning needs to be expanded a bit, as I do not think newbies generally understand "merciless editing" can extend as far as deleting the article.
From: dpbsmith@verizon.net Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 7:36:41 -0500 To: wikien-l@Wikipedia.org, wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: Eric B. Rakim's request for help
- Eric B. Rakim's presentation, in this mailing list, of his case for
including these articles and of the behavior of others, fell far short of exhibiting a NPOV. It was extremely assertive advocacy. It should always be possible for any party to a dispute to describe the points in contention in a way that is _acceptable_ to other parties.
It is the encyclopedia article, not the person and all his communications which is expected to exhibit NPOV.
- IMHO listing articles on VfD is indeed slightly hostile to the author and
it is understandable that an author may get angry about it. However, it is not by any stretch of the imagination "vandalism."
- I find that I have developed a bad habit, which I am trying to cure, of
discussing articles in VfD as if the author were not present.
- Every contributor really needs to accept _in his heart_ the note on the
submission page "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly... then do not submit it."
- Perhaps this warning needs to be expanded a bit, as I do not think newbies
generally understand "merciless editing" can extend as far as deleting the article.
There remains a reasonable assumption that if you put forth good work it will be treated with appropriate respect.
Anyone knows you can't jump into a new situation and suddenly master all the ins and outs, but smoothing that process out is our responsibility.
Fred
I don't disagree with anythingFred said here, I only write to put my own WikiLove spin on it.
Fred Bauder wrote:
It is the encyclopedia article, not the person and all his communications which is expected to exhibit NPOV.
No, but of course as a general recommendation on getting things done, I find that courtesy and cutting the other person a lot of slack is generally advisable. I think that when people call attention to this, it can be helpful.
And trying really really hard to present a dispute in an NPOV fashion can be a great tool for calming finding a solution. Sometimes both parties to a dispute mainly want the visibility of someone outside the dispute stating both sides of the story neutrally and without blame.
And of course we can _all_ remind ourselves from time to time that being kind in the face of hostility of any kind is frequently the most productive response.
There remains a reasonable assumption that if you put forth good work it will be treated with appropriate respect.
Anyone knows you can't jump into a new situation and suddenly master all the ins and outs, but smoothing that process out is our responsibility.
That's right. And the only behavior that each of us can control directly is our own.
--Jimbo