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Nathan stated for the record:
I can do, if it's still needed.
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Sean Barrett wrote:
I have a handful of public-domain instructional videos (moving diagrams) that I'd like to upload, but they are in SWF format. Can someone contact me directly, off-list, to help me convert them to an acceptable format?
Thanks!
Yes, still needed. We have a request (hi, Cormac!) to keep the discussion on-list, so let's stay here at least at first.
I'm running Gentoo Linux, but have access to XP if needed.
Please begin, Nathan.
- -- Sean Barrett | Back off, man, I'm a scientist. sean@epoptic.com | --Dr. Peter Venkman
So you have flash animations, is that right? What do you need them converted to? Can you send me the files? I'm pretty sure I can convert them.
Thanks.
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Sean Barrett wrote:
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Nathan stated for the record:
I can do, if it's still needed.
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Sean Barrett wrote:
I have a handful of public-domain instructional videos (moving diagrams) that I'd like to upload, but they are in SWF format. Can someone contact me directly, off-list, to help me convert them to an acceptable format?
Thanks!
Yes, still needed. We have a request (hi, Cormac!) to keep the discussion on-list, so let's stay here at least at first.
I'm running Gentoo Linux, but have access to XP if needed.
Please begin, Nathan.
Sean Barrett | Back off, man, I'm a scientist. sean@epoptic.com | --Dr. Peter Venkman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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On 7/20/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
So you have flash animations, is that right? What do you need them converted to? Can you send me the files? I'm pretty sure I can convert them.
Thanks.
He'd need them either as animated GIFs or as Ogg/Theora.
(Animated gifs work inline, but stink for anything with many colors) :)
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Gregory Maxwell stated for the record:
On 7/20/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
So you have flash animations, is that right? What do you need them converted to? Can you send me the files? I'm pretty sure I can convert them.
Thanks.
He'd need them either as animated GIFs or as Ogg/Theora.
(Animated gifs work inline, but stink for anything with many colors) :)
I vastly prefer Theora to GIF. The files can be found at
http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_anderson.swf , http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_racetrack.swf , http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_y_back.swf , http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_delayed.swf , and http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_williamson.swf
Each begins with a page of text that should be left out. What I want is the animation you get after clicking on the "play" button (the right-pointing triangle in a circle).
- -- Sean Barrett | Back off, man, I'm a scientist. sean@epoptic.com | --Dr. Peter Venkman
Oh. Well crap, what you require is some editing tools to edit stuff out before conversion.
I can't do that :\
- Nathan
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Sean Barrett wrote:
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Gregory Maxwell stated for the record:
On 7/20/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
So you have flash animations, is that right? What do you need them converted to? Can you send me the files? I'm pretty sure I can convert them.
Thanks.
He'd need them either as animated GIFs or as Ogg/Theora.
(Animated gifs work inline, but stink for anything with many colors) :)
I vastly prefer Theora to GIF. The files can be found at
http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_anderson.swf , http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_racetrack.swf , http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_y_back.swf , http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_delayed.swf , and http://www.epoptic.com/flash/turn_williamson.swf
Each begins with a page of text that should be left out. What I want is the animation you get after clicking on the "play" button (the right-pointing triangle in a circle).
Sean Barrett | Back off, man, I'm a scientist. sean@epoptic.com | --Dr. Peter Venkman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEv8dsMAt1wyd9d+URArkdAJwLRBQHNJ7YwgAwz1m/UIsTBtCnIACeOCUV qGS1PVEnWs5lNUsCRVdQlvg= =sYR0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/21/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
Oh. Well crap, what you require is some editing tools to edit stuff out before conversion.
I can't do that :\
- Nathan
Can Sean (or someone) not edit the raw file in Flash, and then convert to AVI using WinAVI (will this convert to Theora?). I know I used a flash animation in a video I made last year (using Adobe Premiere, which I sadly no longer have access to), so I presume there must be some way of saving this eventually as a Theora or something similar, bypassing Gregory's proposed solution (?)
Anyway, thanks for keeping this on list!
Cormac
WinAVI will convert to AVI (just about any codec of AVI - Xvid/DivX/etcetc)
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006, Cormac Lawler wrote:
On 7/21/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
Oh. Well crap, what you require is some editing tools to edit stuff out before conversion.
I can't do that :\
- Nathan
Can Sean (or someone) not edit the raw file in Flash, and then convert to AVI using WinAVI (will this convert to Theora?). I know I used a flash animation in a video I made last year (using Adobe Premiere, which I sadly no longer have access to), so I presume there must be some way of saving this eventually as a Theora or something similar, bypassing Gregory's proposed solution (?)
Anyway, thanks for keeping this on list!
Cormac _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WinAVI will do what he needs it to do (converts SWF to AVI). I've tested it with a few videos from Youtube (that are *.flv, it works with *.flv as well).
Again, I offered to do it for him, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.
- Nathan
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
On 7/20/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
So you have flash animations, is that right? What do you need them converted to? Can you send me the files? I'm pretty sure I can convert them.
Thanks.
He'd need them either as animated GIFs or as Ogg/Theora.
(Animated gifs work inline, but stink for anything with many colors) :) _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/21/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
WinAVI will do what he needs it to do (converts SWF to AVI). I've tested it with a few videos from Youtube (that are *.flv, it works with *.flv as well).
Again, I offered to do it for him, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Fuss? Huh.
If you want to send me the .avi I can edit out whatever needs to be edited out, and covert to Theora.
Ok, give me the list again please. What codec of AVI do you need it converted to?
- Nathan
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
On 7/21/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
WinAVI will do what he needs it to do (converts SWF to AVI). I've tested it with a few videos from Youtube (that are *.flv, it works with *.flv as well).
Again, I offered to do it for him, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Fuss? Huh.
If you want to send me the .avi I can edit out whatever needs to be edited out, and covert to Theora. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/21/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
Ok, give me the list again please. What codec of AVI do you need it converted to?
Not AVI, AVI is propritary and most of the codecs for it (including all of the good ones) are patented to hell and back.
The final target needs to be Ogg/Theora. ffmpeg2theora is a nice tool for taking other video formats and spitting out Theora. Your avi should be encoded as losslessly as possible, ideally YUV 4:2:2 (which most windows apps will read but most don't offer to let you write), RAW frames (which most windows apps will not read or write), or failing those options 20+mbit/sec MPEG2 (which, yes, you can encap in AVI).
If your toolchain doesn't support Ogg/Theora, feel free to send me an AVI (encoded as per above).
When last I checked, the XviD codec (AVI) was free and open source.
- Nathan
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
On 7/21/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
Ok, give me the list again please. What codec of AVI do you need it converted to?
Not AVI, AVI is propritary and most of the codecs for it (including all of the good ones) are patented to hell and back.
The final target needs to be Ogg/Theora. ffmpeg2theora is a nice tool for taking other video formats and spitting out Theora. Your avi should be encoded as losslessly as possible, ideally YUV 4:2:2 (which most windows apps will read but most don't offer to let you write), RAW frames (which most windows apps will not read or write), or failing those options 20+mbit/sec MPEG2 (which, yes, you can encap in AVI).
If your toolchain doesn't support Ogg/Theora, feel free to send me an AVI (encoded as per above). _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/21/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
When last I checked, the XviD codec (AVI) was free and open source.
The XviD codec is very much patent encumbered. No free mpeg4 codec can exist in the near future. The situation for XviD is actually much worse than MP3. mpeg4 codec licensing is a huge expensive mess. Fortunately Theora has competitive quality/bitrate with mpeg4.
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Gregory Maxwell stated for the record:
The XviD codec is very much patent encumbered. No free mpeg4 codec can exist in the near future. The situation for XviD is actually much worse than MP3. mpeg4 codec licensing is a huge expensive mess. Fortunately Theora has competitive quality/bitrate with mpeg4.
All of this is very interesting (and believe it or not, I'm not being sarcastic). However, can anyone actually help convert these SWFs? I've installed ffmpeg2theora, but that seems to only change the question to "how do I convert a SWF to MPEG2?"
- -- Sean Barrett | There is absolutely no substitute sean@epoptic.com | for a genuine lack of preparation.
I'm getting rather sick of the argument, myself.
A program called "SUPER" (for Windows) can convert it to any format (even *cringe* OGG/Theora - though I personally don't understand why not to use DivX or XviD as they're widely available, closed source or not - I guess it's a "your mileage may vary" type of issue - I go with codecs that are widely available). It has its own codecs so it's not dependant on the ones on your system. You can get it at http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html
It can absolutely convert to OGG/Theora if you want to go with that recommendation.
In case you ask why I didn't suggest it before, I just found it last night.
Just install, wait a little while for it to install, then run. It's simple stuff and straightforward.
- Nathan
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Sean Barrett wrote:
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Gregory Maxwell stated for the record:
The XviD codec is very much patent encumbered. No free mpeg4 codec can exist in the near future. The situation for XviD is actually much worse than MP3. mpeg4 codec licensing is a huge expensive mess. Fortunately Theora has competitive quality/bitrate with mpeg4.
All of this is very interesting (and believe it or not, I'm not being sarcastic). However, can anyone actually help convert these SWFs? I've installed ffmpeg2theora, but that seems to only change the question to "how do I convert a SWF to MPEG2?"
Sean Barrett | There is absolutely no substitute sean@epoptic.com | for a genuine lack of preparation. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEwmOJMAt1wyd9d+URAqHPAJoCnrIVqmsOhZiMQ/BejmhO2iEp/gCcDLz0 2PNHXKLR39xnPDERS0hqqIc= =v7WV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Nathan stated for the record:
I'm getting rather sick of the argument, myself.
A program called "SUPER" (for Windows) can convert it to any format (even *cringe* OGG/Theora - though I personally don't understand why not to use DivX or XviD as they're widely available, closed source or not - I guess it's a "your mileage may vary" type of issue - I go with codecs that are widely available). It has its own codecs so it's not dependant on the ones on your system. You can get it at http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html
It can absolutely convert to OGG/Theora if you want to go with that recommendation.
In case you ask why I didn't suggest it before, I just found it last night.
Just install, wait a little while for it to install, then run. It's simple stuff and straightforward.
- Nathan
Everything you say is true, but SUPER can't read the SWFs. It errors out no matter what I try. It did work on an unrelated WMV I had lying around, so it appears to be installed correctly.
Have you been able to convert any of the SWFs I listed earlier?
- -- Sean Barrett | There is absolutely no substitute sean@epoptic.com | for a genuine lack of preparation.
On 7/22/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
I'm getting rather sick of the argument, myself.
Then why did you said you'd convert it then fail to do so?!?!
I'm not arguing, I'm telling you what format it must be in in order to upload the files to Wikipedia.
I'd offered to convert it myself, but doing so would require non-trivial effort on the shockwave side from me... since you said you had tools to do it, I figured I'd let you do it. When it sounded like you might not know how to convert an AVI that your tools produced to Ogg/Theora I offered to do that for you.
I don't see what the problem is... Are you going to convert the file to at least AVI? Or should I figure out how to do it?
Alright, let's clear a few things up, as there appears to be some sort of miscommunication:
* Yes, I have the tools to convert Shockwave files into other formats. -At the time-, I did not have tools to convert anything into OGG/Theora. I do now. * No, I do not have the tools to edit Shockwave files and remove certain things that he'd like removed. * I'm not here to argue this with you. * I asked him for the list again and I will attempt it. I don't appreciate the argumentative tone. Let's please keep arguments off the list; I have no personal problems with you, please don't make one with me as it will be ignored. I didn't subscribe to this list to argue with people. Please assume good faith. Kindly do not argue with me.
- Nathan
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
On 7/22/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
I'm getting rather sick of the argument, myself.
Then why did you said you'd convert it then fail to do so?!?!
I'm not arguing, I'm telling you what format it must be in in order to upload the files to Wikipedia.
I'd offered to convert it myself, but doing so would require non-trivial effort on the shockwave side from me... since you said you had tools to do it, I figured I'd let you do it. When it sounded like you might not know how to convert an AVI that your tools produced to Ogg/Theora I offered to do that for you.
I don't see what the problem is... Are you going to convert the file to at least AVI? Or should I figure out how to do it? _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/22/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
Alright, let's clear a few things up, as there appears to be some sort of miscommunication:
- Yes, I have the tools to convert Shockwave files into other formats. -At
the time-, I did not have tools to convert anything into OGG/Theora. I do now.
- No, I do not have the tools to edit Shockwave files and remove certain
things that he'd like removed.
- I'm not here to argue this with you.
- I asked him for the list again and I will attempt it. I don't appreciate
the argumentative tone. Let's please keep arguments off the list; I have no personal problems with you, please don't make one with me as it will be ignored. I didn't subscribe to this list to argue with people. Please assume good faith. Kindly do not argue with me.
I'm completely confused by you. I have no idea why you think that there is any sort of argument going on. I've just been answering questions and I see you jumping up and down about an argument .. and I'm just totally baffled.
If you need any help with Theora encoding, just let me know.
On 7/22/06, Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell@gmail.com wrote:
I'm completely confused by you. I have no idea why you think that there is any sort of argument going on. I've just been answering questions and I see you jumping up and down about an argument .. and I'm just totally baffled.
If you need any help with Theora encoding, just let me know.
Okay I just got an offlist message pointing out that Nathan is some kind of insane troll with links to his screeds elsewhere, I had no clue... I was unaware of Nathan, and was assuming good sanity. I feel much better knowing now.
In the future, if anyone on the list sees me walking in circles due to a similar lack of knowledge, an offlist ping would be greatly appreciated. There are just too many people involved in Wikimedia for me to keep track of who is sane and who isn't, and I'd rather spend my time trying to help people who are sane.
I'm not "jumping up and down" about anything.
You ended a statement with "?!?!?!". Your tone was off, and it was bordering on incivil. How am I supposed to react to that, hmm?
I read the e-mail as not assuming good faith and it looked like (from your perspective and the way you worded it) that I wasn't really offering my help and was just waffling on about doing something I had no intentions of doing which is totally not the case.
- Nathan
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
On 7/22/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
Alright, let's clear a few things up, as there appears to be some sort of miscommunication:
- Yes, I have the tools to convert Shockwave files into other formats. -At
the time-, I did not have tools to convert anything into OGG/Theora. I do now.
- No, I do not have the tools to edit Shockwave files and remove certain
things that he'd like removed.
- I'm not here to argue this with you.
- I asked him for the list again and I will attempt it. I don't appreciate
the argumentative tone. Let's please keep arguments off the list; I have no personal problems with you, please don't make one with me as it will be ignored. I didn't subscribe to this list to argue with people. Please assume good faith. Kindly do not argue with me.
I'm completely confused by you. I have no idea why you think that there is any sort of argument going on. I've just been answering questions and I see you jumping up and down about an argument .. and I'm just totally baffled.
If you need any help with Theora encoding, just let me know. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/22/06, Sean Barrett sean@epoptic.com wrote:
All of this is very interesting (and believe it or not, I'm not being sarcastic). However, can anyone actually help convert these SWFs? I've installed ffmpeg2theora, but that seems to only change the question to "how do I convert a SWF to MPEG2?"
You can use xvidcap to record the running SWF under linux. The convert the result to Theora. ... I dont think the image quality of these SWF's are great to begin with, but the result seems okay:
http://myrandomnode.dyndns.org/pics/video_test.ogg
If you want, and confirm for me that the copyright on these are kosher, I'll go ahead and convert the rest.
Really I suspect we could just recreate them and get better resutlts than working with these SWFs, but as long as the copyright is okay .. It turns out that they are easy enough to convert.
--- Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/22/06, Sean Barrett sean@epoptic.com wrote:
All of this is very interesting (and believe it or not, I'm not being sarcastic). However, can anyone actually help convert these SWFs? I've installed ffmpeg2theora, but that seems to only change the question to "how do I convert a SWF to MPEG2?"
You can use xvidcap to record the running SWF under linux. The convert the result to Theora. ... I dont think the image quality of these SWF's are great to begin with, but the result seems okay:
AIUI, there is no such thing as an SWF video format, and the SWF is just a container to allow portability and some play control buttons. Use some kind of SWF decompiler, and the video inside will be in something easy enough to convert.
SV
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On 7/22/06, stevertigo vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
AIUI, there is no such thing as an SWF video format, and the SWF is just a container to allow portability and some play control buttons. Use some kind of SWF decompiler, and the video inside will be in something easy enough to convert.
See the beginning of the thread. Shockwave is, effectively, a programming environment. Some times it's used as a container for video,
In this case the 'video' isn't even a video at all.. it's a shockwave animation. Nothing 'easy to (directly) convert about it'. The best way to convert it to video is to record shockwave executing it... or recreate it in an animation enviroment that allows video output. :)
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Gregory Maxwell stated for the record:
On 7/22/06, Sean Barrett sean@epoptic.com wrote:
All of this is very interesting (and believe it or not, I'm not being sarcastic). However, can anyone actually help convert these SWFs? I've installed ffmpeg2theora, but that seems to only change the question to "how do I convert a SWF to MPEG2?"
You can use xvidcap to record the running SWF under linux. The convert the result to Theora. ... I dont think the image quality of these SWF's are great to begin with, but the result seems okay:
http://myrandomnode.dyndns.org/pics/video_test.ogg
If you want, and confirm for me that the copyright on these are kosher, I'll go ahead and convert the rest.
Really I suspect we could just recreate them and get better resutlts than working with these SWFs, but as long as the copyright is okay .. It turns out that they are easy enough to convert.
The license is {{PD-USGov-Military-Navy}}, created by an employee of the US Navy during the course of his duties. I copied the SWFs from https://ile-lms.nko.navy.mil/Details.asp?CourseRef=32077 , a CBT course entitled "Surface Warfare Officer School (SWOS) Shiphandling."
- -- Sean Barrett | She got her good looks from her father. sean@epoptic.com | He's a plastic surgeon. --Groucho Marx
On 7/23/06, Sean Barrett sean@epoptic.com wrote:
The license is {{PD-USGov-Military-Navy}}, created by an employee of the US Navy during the course of his duties. I copied the SWFs from https://ile-lms.nko.navy.mil/Details.asp?CourseRef=32077 , a CBT course entitled "Surface Warfare Officer School (SWOS) Shiphandling."
Fantastic. Was the one I posted acceptable to you?
If so, I'll go convert the rest....
If not, tell me what to change. It would be easy to crop it differently, change the size, or change the speed..
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Gregory Maxwell stated for the record:
On 7/23/06, Sean Barrett sean@epoptic.com wrote:
The license is {{PD-USGov-Military-Navy}}, created by an employee of the US Navy during the course of his duties. I copied the SWFs from https://ile-lms.nko.navy.mil/Details.asp?CourseRef=32077 , a CBT course entitled "Surface Warfare Officer School (SWOS) Shiphandling."
Fantastic. Was the one I posted acceptable to you?
If so, I'll go convert the rest....
If not, tell me what to change. It would be easy to crop it differently, change the size, or change the speed..
What you did was great -- please do the rest just like it.
- -- Sean Barrett | She got her good looks from her father. sean@epoptic.com | He's a plastic surgeon. --Groucho Marx
I'm not understanding why specifically OGG/Thora (because it's free? Still, why?). As long as anything can play it, that should be the aim, hmm?
- Nathan
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
On 7/21/06, Nathan lists@home.nathanr.com wrote:
When last I checked, the XviD codec (AVI) was free and open source.
The XviD codec is very much patent encumbered. No free mpeg4 codec can exist in the near future. The situation for XviD is actually much worse than MP3. mpeg4 codec licensing is a huge expensive mess. Fortunately Theora has competitive quality/bitrate with mpeg4. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
My offer was to do it for you, so you don't have to do the work.
- Nathan
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Sean Barrett wrote:
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Nathan stated for the record:
I can do, if it's still needed.
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006, Sean Barrett wrote:
I have a handful of public-domain instructional videos (moving diagrams) that I'd like to upload, but they are in SWF format. Can someone contact me directly, off-list, to help me convert them to an acceptable format?
Thanks!
Yes, still needed. We have a request (hi, Cormac!) to keep the discussion on-list, so let's stay here at least at first.
I'm running Gentoo Linux, but have access to XP if needed.
Please begin, Nathan.
Sean Barrett | Back off, man, I'm a scientist. sean@epoptic.com | --Dr. Peter Venkman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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