Try looking here: http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml Some sound advice... HTH HAND

On 5/23/07, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell(a)gmail.com> wrote:Joe Szilagyi wrote: Thanks! Why is a WMF project enforcing non-legally binding policies of 3rd party services that are not 'official' for Wikimedia Foundation/project use? That's what I'm getting at: where does it say/decide on-Wiki that it's against the rules to post logs? Not trying to be inflammatory, given what just happened, just genuinely curious as I don't recall ever seeing this written anywhere, just the same few people always saying "You can't do this!" Regards, Joe http://www.joeszilagyi.com _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

On 5/23/07, Philippe Beaudette <philippebeaudette(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IRC says "Most Wikimedia channels prohibit > the publication of chat logs. For more details, see m:IRC > channels#Logging_prohibition."

I apologize if my questioning was or is obtuse. I'll be more straightforward. Where on en.wikipedia.org is the enforceable policy (approved and endorsed by the community--not just the IRC admins, whose on-IRC rules have no merit on-Wiki) stating that you cannot repost IRC logs from the unofficial Wikipedia channels for community review of situations or other legitimate purposes?

On 5/23/07, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: Every (rare) time that I've ever seen logs posted on-wiki, they were RVd out and removed. Basically, I was looking for confirmation that it's a fully policy on Wikipedia that posting them is a violation, given what just happened. What if someone had posted the logs of what happened to Jeff? Or Giano? Would these people be in trouble? What policy did they violate? If the community will is that you can't post them, given how frequently IRC related stuff like this seems to come up, it should be simply stated on Wikipedia then that "Do this, it'll be reverted. Keep doing it, blocked," etc. Otherwise, *if* someone did post them, there should obviously be no repercussions as IRC is a 3rd party service and beyond the scope of Wikipedia's policies and rules at present. Simply saying "You can't do that," isn't sufficient. It needs to be grounded in either policy, law, or the support of the people on-wiki. That's basically it. :) Regards, Joe http://www.joeszilagyi.com _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

On 5/23/07, Gary Kirk <gary.kirk(a)gmail.com> wrote: Yes, but not on wikipedia, the ban is on IRC, isn't it?

Crux of the question, yes. Why do any rules or policies from 3rd party websites or services receive enforcement on Wikipedia? James F or Kelly or whomever made the rule for the channels, but their authority on Freenode has no applicability on Wikipedia. Regards, Joe http://www.joeszilagyi.com

But what about fair use? If we are posting a snippet of a log to discuss its content, that certainly qualifies as fair use.

On Wed, 23 May 2007, Blu Aardvark wrote: Am I missing something here? People can be held accountable for doing things without reasons. If they continue the discussions in secluded channels, and then act on them, they are acting with no public reason, in effect with no reason at all. They can just be treated as acting with no reason.

Joe Szilagyi wrote: I have a feeling that there may perhaps be some legal invasion of privacy issue - in the UK at least, it's illegal to record a telephone conversation without the other person's permission, and I wonder whether that might apply to IRC too (since it's sort of equivalent). David On 24/05/07, Gabe Johnson <gjzilla(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Well, speaking more loudly than you intended on Trivia Night and having the table next to you steal all your answers, perhaps. Shouting across a crowded room? No, not especially. That applies to #wikipedia[0], though, not #wikipedia-en-admins, which is not a public channel. Nice try, though.

geni wrote: You can't be serious.

As far as I know, all channels starting with #wikipedia- and #wikimedia- are official as agreed with freenode, and if it were needed, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Group_Contacts could take control over them

Also http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_channels specifies which channels forbid logging, which ones may be logged and which are open

Perhaps the foundation should just run its own IRC server or network. Then they can set whatever rules they see as appropriate. Who can join which channels, who can log, etc. Then there would be no wikilawyering about wikipedia/foundation policies vs Freenode policies. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

On Saturday 26 May 2007 12:18, Gary Kirk wrote:

> In an ideal, money-tree world, yeah.

A single server would suffice, really...just look at the traffic in the Wikimedia-related IRC channels on Freenode yeah. The financial burden would hardly be noticeable. If nothing else, just pay $60 a month to rent a dedicated server or colo and administer it from there.