Geoff Burling wrote:
In other words, we should expect a number of edit wars between German chauvinists & Polish chauvinists to occur over territories that were formerly part of Germany for the foreseeable future?
No. The articles about Gdansk/Danzig and Szczecin/Stettin are findable under their Polish names (Gdansk, Szczecin), and that's fine, because these are now Polish cities. As for Oder/Odra and Neisse/Nysa, these are common German-Polish rivers, so I don't see, why the name "Oder" should be forgotten in the future, as Space Cadet predicted.
What do you think about that solution: call it "Oder" in articles relating to German regions (Lower Oder Valley National Park), call it "Odra" in articles relating to Polish regions (Szczecin). The article about the river itself is titled with one of these names, and the other name is stated in the first sentence of that article. The same should be done for Neisse/Nysa. And everyone can be happy again ;-)
So, my vote is to leave the main article where it is now: "Odra", since there are greater portions of the river in Poland. If you agree, I change the name for the German regions back to "Oder" and link it to "Odra". The same may be done for Neisse/Nysa.
If you agree, I will place this (or another) compromise on the Odra talk page, in order to refer everyone begining the dispute anew to that page.
Mirko.
Mirko Thiessen wrote:
What do you think about that solution: call it "Oder" in articles relating to German regions (Lower Oder Valley National Park), call it "Odra" in articles relating to Polish regions (Szczecin).
Is this common practice in English?
So, my vote is to leave the main article where it is now: "Odra", since there are greater portions of the river in Poland.
The location of the river is one factor in determining what we should call it in English, but not the only factor. We know the name in Polish, and the name in German, but the question of what the name "really" is in English seems to be primarily a question of common usage.
It seems like this river is not widely talked about in English at all (based on my web searches), so it probably doesn't matter a great deal either way. :-)
--Jimbo
|From: Jimmy Wales jwales@bomis.com |Content-Disposition: inline |Sender: wikien-l-admin@wikipedia.org |Reply-To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org |Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 03:48:06 -0800 | |Mirko Thiessen wrote: |> What do you think about that solution: call it "Oder" in articles |> relating to German regions (Lower Oder Valley National Park), call |> it "Odra" in articles relating to Polish regions (Szczecin). | |Is this common practice in English? | |> So, my vote is to leave the main article where it is now: "Odra", |> since there are greater portions of the river in Poland. | |The location of the river is one factor in determining what we should |call it in English, but not the only factor. We know the name in |Polish, and the name in German, but the question of what the name |"really" is in English seems to be primarily a question of common |usage. | |It seems like this river is not widely talked about in English at all |(based on my web searches), so it probably doesn't matter a great deal |either way. :-)
Unfortunately, the Oder and Niesse are important in 20th century history due to their role in settling the border between Germany and Poland. The Oder-Neisse line was part of the Iron Curtain. It was a great concession to Poland to draw the line there, as it meant that Danzig (now Gdansk) was unequivocally part of Poland. When right-wingers talk about the "give-aways" of the Yalta conference, the Oder-Neisse line is one of the big ones.
Google has 1100 hits on Oder-Neisse line, and 12 hits (all in Polish) on Odra-Nysa. Wikipedia does not have an entry [[Oder-Niesse line]] but other encyclopedias do. However, Wikipedia has numerous mentions of the Oder-Niesse line, such as in [[German reunification]].
Tom Parmenter Ortolan88
| |--Jimbo | |_______________________________________________ |WikiEN-l mailing list |WikiEN-l@wikipedia.org |http://www.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l |
As I said yesterday, I doubt that there are many English speakers who ever heard of Odra. Zoe Jimmy Wales jwales@bomis.com wrote:Mirko Thiessen wrote:
What do you think about that solution: call it "Oder" in articles relating to German regions (Lower Oder Valley National Park), call it "Odra" in articles relating to Polish regions (Szczecin).
Is this common practice in English?
So, my vote is to leave the main article where it is now: "Odra", since there are greater portions of the river in Poland.
The location of the river is one factor in determining what we should call it in English, but not the only factor. We know the name in Polish, and the name in German, but the question of what the name "really" is in English seems to be primarily a question of common usage.
It seems like this river is not widely talked about in English at all (based on my web searches), so it probably doesn't matter a great deal either way. :-)
--Jimbo
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On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:45:23 -0800 (PST), Zoe zoecomnena@yahoo.com wrote:
The location of the river is one factor in determining what we should call it in English, but not the only factor. We know the name in Polish, and the name in German, but the question of what the name "really" is in English seems to be primarily a question of common usage.
It seems like this river is not widely talked about in English at all (based on my web searches), so it probably doesn't matter a great deal either way. :-)
I've only heard of it as Oder (Crossword clue: River in Europe)