Consider, for a moment, this edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Addams_Family_%28pinball%29&am...
It is a minor modification to our description of "The Addams Family" pinball machine. Because I happen to own one of those machines, I know that this edit is partly right but almost certainly partly wrong. However, I haven't played it much lately, so my first instinct was to commit the grievous sin of original research by playing a few games.
In thinking about this further, there are whole classes of article just like this one, full of uncited information that is probably original research. The unifying characteristics seem to be:
1. If the article is somewhat inaccurate, there is little risk of real-world harm, 2. The topic is of relatively low importance, 3. Having something on the topic is a net benefit to our readers, and 4. There is a wide enough base of people with knowledge of the topic that the article can generally be verified from collective personal experience.
Personally, I think these articles are worth keeping. Our readers get information they want. It also seems like a good place for newbies to contribute: it's a topic they are interested in, there is plenty for them to fix, and if they don't get it exactly right they won't immediately be reverted and slapped with a talk page notice containing eight links to policy shortcuts as they would on, say, [[Evolution]].
As far as I can tell, though, there is no written policy or guideline for this kind of thing. Is that the case? It's probably for the best, honestly, as they are doing fine without it, and I imagine creating a special exception for this kind of thing would lead to all sorts of disruptive wikilawyering.
Regardless, I thought it was interesting how much has been built in the outskirts of our metropolis. Not up to our building codes, but not a big problem, and better than nothing.
William
There's not always a clear divide between original research, and using the subject as a primary source. For instance, film articles usually contain plot summaries. The plot summary is written by people who have watched the film; it is not (and normally cannot) be cited to an independent reliable source. But it is verifiable by watching the film. Similarly, nobody has published
There's not always a clear divide between original research, and using the subject as a primary source.
Exactly. That is the key point. In the pinball example, looking at the game and playing it a little just to find out what how many points different things are worth is probably ok (<ref>{{cite pinball machine|title=Addams Family|manufacturer=|played=26/7/07}}</ref>) playing lots of games in order to determine how difficult a game it is would be OR. The dividing line is somewhere inbetween - I don't know where.
However, I haven't played it much lately, so my first instinct was to commit the grievous sin of original research by playing a few games.
My personal view is that our core principle isn't WP:N, WP:NPO even WP:NOR. It's WP:GOOD: do whatever's best for the encyclopaedia. From this, all other rules follow. We require notability, neutral point of view and verifiability because we think they make for a better encyclopaedia, and we have WP:IAR for situations just like this, where the good of the 'pedia conflicts with something else.
David
On 26/05/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
There's not always a clear divide between original research, and using
the
subject as a primary source.
Exactly. That is the key point. In the pinball example, looking at the game and playing it a little just to find out what how many points different things are worth is probably ok (<ref>{{cite pinball machine|title=Addams Family|manufacturer=|played=26/7/07}}</ref>) playing lots of games in order to determine how difficult a game it is would be OR. The dividing line is somewhere inbetween - I don't know where.
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Dammit, stupid computer. Try again:
There's not always a clear divide between original research, and using the subject as a primary source. For instance, film articles usually contain plot summaries. The plot summary is written by people who have watched the film; it is not (and normally cannot) be cited to an independent reliable source. But it is verifiable by watching the film. Similarly, nobody has published anything about this pinball machine. But the information is verifiable by looking at the machine itself. Where does taking information from a machine itself turn into original research?
On 26/05/07, William Pietri william@scissor.com wrote:
Consider, for a moment, this edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Addams_Family_%28pinball%29&am...
It is a minor modification to our description of "The Addams Family" pinball machine. Because I happen to own one of those machines, I know that this edit is partly right but almost certainly partly wrong. However, I haven't played it much lately, so my first instinct was to commit the grievous sin of original research by playing a few games.
I don't think that doing that is original research any more that opening up a referenced hardback book to check is original research. Either the game does that, or it doesn't that's *not* an original research.
Original research is when you *synthesize* multiple sources or ideas together and then edit that into the Wikipedia. In this case there's ultimately only one source, the game itself.
William
On 5/27/07, Ian Woollard ian.woollard@gmail.com wrote:
Original research is when you *synthesize* multiple sources or ideas together and then edit that into the Wikipedia. In this case there's ultimately only one source, the game itself.
You can do original research with one source if you publish new theories about it, for instance.
In the case of a video game or pinball table or the like, I don't think checking with an actual instance of the game is original research for simple, easily confirmed facts.
However, doing e.g. a statistical analysis of the scoring, or attempting to work out the logic employed by a computer-controlled opponent in a video came, are both good examples of original research. So is adding your original idea of how to beat the game.
-Matt
the problem comes when you say the game works one way, and I try it and think it works a different way. we have no way to resolve this except to discard both findings. DGG
On 5/27/07, Matthew Brown morven@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/27/07, Ian Woollard ian.woollard@gmail.com wrote:
Original research is when you *synthesize* multiple sources or ideas together and then edit that into the Wikipedia. In this case there's ultimately only one source, the game itself.
You can do original research with one source if you publish new theories about it, for instance.
In the case of a video game or pinball table or the like, I don't think checking with an actual instance of the game is original research for simple, easily confirmed facts.
However, doing e.g. a statistical analysis of the scoring, or attempting to work out the logic employed by a computer-controlled opponent in a video came, are both good examples of original research. So is adding your original idea of how to beat the game.
-Matt
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*Removing* information from the wikipedia that cannot be verified is not original research; particularly if you post your (lack of) findings on talk first. ADDING information to the wikipedia can be.
On 31/05/07, David Goodman dgoodmanny@gmail.com wrote:
the problem comes when you say the game works one way, and I try it and think it works a different way. we have no way to resolve this except to discard both findings. DGG
On 5/27/07, Matthew Brown morven@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/27/07, Ian Woollard ian.woollard@gmail.com wrote:
Original research is when you *synthesize* multiple sources or ideas together and then edit that into the Wikipedia. In this case there's ultimately only one source, the game itself.
You can do original research with one source if you publish new theories about it, for instance.
In the case of a video game or pinball table or the like, I don't think checking with an actual instance of the game is original research for simple, easily confirmed facts.
However, doing e.g. a statistical analysis of the scoring, or attempting to work out the logic employed by a computer-controlled opponent in a video came, are both good examples of original research. So is adding your original idea of how to beat the game.
-Matt
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-- David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
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