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I do want to thank everyone who gave input for my BLP question, and a special nod to Angela who pointed out the archives. I should have read those first.
Here is a second issue I would like to discuss, if the group is inclined.
Speedy deletion nominations, I would propose there be a paradigm shift from our current thinking of "Tag immediately and template the user talk *right after* creation to something like "don't tag untill an hour has passed". I believe this will be less bity and more encouraging to our users. To quote something I observed today from one good editor in reference to our jest over speedy deletions:
"Welcome to wikipedia. You didn't create a good enough article in your allotted 60 seconds so we deleted it. Dont forget to sign your posts!"
Even though it was in jest, it is true.
I think perhaps it is time we consider enacting (onwiki discussion to follow if this is well received) something of a one hour rule to tagging and templating. We've grown so...
...automated.
Thoughts?
Best, Jon
The problem with your suggestion is almost a software issue as well. Why they are done right now... In 60 seconds or less is because that is what users see on the ervent changes feed.
Secondly there is the issue of google indexing our new pages very quickly. I have heard estimates that new articles are out on google anywhere from 1 hour to 5 hours. We do need to make sure attacks and spam are removed before google indexs them.
On 12/30/08, Jon scream@datascreamer.com wrote:
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I do want to thank everyone who gave input for my BLP question, and a special nod to Angela who pointed out the archives. I should have read those first.
Here is a second issue I would like to discuss, if the group is inclined.
Speedy deletion nominations, I would propose there be a paradigm shift from our current thinking of "Tag immediately and template the user talk *right after* creation to something like "don't tag untill an hour has passed". I believe this will be less bity and more encouraging to our users. To quote something I observed today from one good editor in reference to our jest over speedy deletions:
"Welcome to wikipedia. You didn't create a good enough article in your allotted 60 seconds so we deleted it. Dont forget to sign your posts!"
Even though it was in jest, it is true.
I think perhaps it is time we consider enacting (onwiki discussion to follow if this is well received) something of a one hour rule to tagging and templating. We've grown so...
...automated.
Thoughts?
Best, Jon
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On 12/30/08, Wilhelm Schnotz wilhelm@nixeagle.org wrote:
Secondly there is the issue of google indexing our new pages very quickly. I have heard estimates that new articles are out on google anywhere from 1 hour to 5 hours. We do need to make sure attacks and spam are removed before google indexs them.
If this is truly the root of all urgency we should turn on flaggedrevs.
In the beginning we would want Google to index only an article's last stable version (if one exists).
After a certain grace period (to keep known-good content from vanishing), we can begin instructing Google to stop indexing articles which have no flagged rev and to de-index existing unflagged revs.
While I think this would be the best strategy to avoid the scenarios you describe, I don't think it has anything to do with the shelf-life of articles tagged for speedy deletion.
Some users like to nuke every {{third-world-topic-stub}} from geostationary orbit because it is like a video game to them. Faster pussycat, kill, kill, and let no mayfly die of natural causes.
Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks.
—C.W.
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Charlotte Webb charlottethewebb@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/30/08, Wilhelm Schnotz wilhelm@nixeagle.org wrote:
Secondly there is the issue of google indexing our new pages very quickly. I have heard estimates that new articles are out on google anywhere from 1 hour to 5 hours. We do need to make sure attacks and spam are removed before google indexs them.
If this is truly the root of all urgency we should turn on flaggedrevs.
In the beginning we would want Google to index only an article's last stable version (if one exists).
After a certain grace period (to keep known-good content from vanishing), we can begin instructing Google to stop indexing articles which have no flagged rev and to de-index existing unflagged revs.
While I think this would be the best strategy to avoid the scenarios you describe, I don't think it has anything to do with the shelf-life of articles tagged for speedy deletion.
Some users like to nuke every {{third-world-topic-stub}} from geostationary orbit because it is like a video game to them. Faster pussycat, kill, kill, and let no mayfly die of natural causes.
Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks.
Depends. If those efforts are channelled towards difficult stuff, it could make things worse. The trick is to find something else ongoing, backlogged, interesting and simple and rewarding and useful (that last one might be difficult), and directing the efforts towards that.
Carcharoth
2008/12/31 Charlotte Webb charlottethewebb@gmail.com:
If this is truly the root of all urgency we should turn on flaggedrevs.
Try and keep up with marking new pages as patrolled for say half an hour.
In the beginning we would want Google to index only an article's last stable version (if one exists).
After a certain grace period (to keep known-good content from vanishing), we can begin instructing Google to stop indexing articles which have no flagged rev and to de-index existing unflagged revs.
There is no way to do this.
Some users like to nuke every {{third-world-topic-stub}} from geostationary orbit because it is like a video game to them. Faster pussycat, kill, kill, and let no mayfly die of natural causes.
Not so much. Since it is generally fairly easy to argue for the significance of many unwritten third world articles.
Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks.
Experience suggests not.
We could as easily set up new pages to have a half-hour holding period; the problem is how to separate the need to remove the truly nasty material immediately. A delay period inevitably requires checking things twice.
On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 3:15 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
2008/12/31 Charlotte Webb charlottethewebb@gmail.com:
If this is truly the root of all urgency we should turn on flaggedrevs.
Try and keep up with marking new pages as patrolled for say half an hour.
In the beginning we would want Google to index only an article's last stable version (if one exists).
After a certain grace period (to keep known-good content from vanishing), we can begin instructing Google to stop indexing articles which have no flagged rev and to de-index existing unflagged revs.
There is no way to do this.
Some users like to nuke every {{third-world-topic-stub}} from geostationary orbit because it is like a video game to them. Faster pussycat, kill, kill, and let no mayfly die of natural causes.
Not so much. Since it is generally fairly easy to argue for the significance of many unwritten third world articles.
Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks.
Experience suggests not.
-- geni
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2009/1/1 David Goodman dgoodmanny@gmail.com:
We could as easily set up new pages to have a half-hour holding period; the problem is how to separate the need to remove the truly nasty material immediately. A delay period inevitably requires checking things twice.
Already possible http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&offset=200901... that is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&offset=year,m...
But no one wants to do that. Remember tagging is secondary admins can just straight delete without tagging.
When I patrol, I go from the link to "patrolling pages from the back of the unpatrolled backlog." http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&dir=prev&...
The problem is not setting it up so I person can do it; the problem is arranging so pages are routinely patrolled after an interval--for arranging it so nothing ges missed, either immediately fo rthe really bad stuff, or later to do it for the rest.
On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 5:24 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
2009/1/1 David Goodman dgoodmanny@gmail.com:
We could as easily set up new pages to have a half-hour holding period; the problem is how to separate the need to remove the truly nasty material immediately. A delay period inevitably requires checking things twice.
Already possible http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&offset=200901... that is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&offset=year,m...
But no one wants to do that. Remember tagging is secondary admins can just straight delete without tagging.
-- geni
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"Jon" scream@datascreamer.com wrote in message news:495AEFC3.2040105@datascreamer.com... (...)
"Welcome to wikipedia. You didn't create a good enough article in your allotted 60 seconds so we deleted it. Dont forget to sign your posts!"
Even though it was in jest, it is true.
(...)
Actually, no, not literally true, and as they say "true enough" to be funny. David Levy criticized me for putting a joke in wikipedia, mentioning uncyclopedia. He did not convince me that jokes are a problem in template space (I hav, however sworn off of template space). {{db|speedy|funny|hour}} for "Speedily delete with a funny warning, and let users think that it took a while to decide, because it might otherwise feel like a machine rejected it, and that is not as far from the truth as it should be." Deletionism is boring. Now wonder they get stern. I know. Not on wikipedia. In e-mail, it is so trivial to identify the crap, and so much trouble to report it, and you just know that some sucker is going to fall for some twit with twenty million to split with you (He might actually hav it, too, because of suckers who believe the other story over the phone, which is more convincing). If it sounds too good to be true, it almost always is. _______ BrewJay's Babble Bin