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Re: [WikiEN-l] fundraising

[[Views of Lyndon LaRouche]]...

Mark Wagner

23 Oct 2007 23 Oct '07

1:36 a.m.

I just opened up the article on [[BioShock]], and there's some sort of banner ad scrolling French text across the top. I can't see any vandalism in the article history or any of the templates it uses. I'm pretty sure I don't have a spyware problem, since I'm running Gentoo Linux. Has a spammer somehow gotten access to the user interface? A screenshot of what I'm seeing is at http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/Carnildo/Forums/bannerad.png -- Mark [[User:Carnildo]]

Show replies by date

Phil Sandifer

23 Oct 23 Oct

1:39 a.m.

On Oct 22, 2007, at 7:36 PM, Mark Wagner wrote:

...

That's our new fundraising drive. It could stand to be a bit more descriptive. -Phil

Robert Rohde

1:57 a.m.

A pink box with scrolling text, often in foreign languages, really? "*What you don't know about us...* (See more)" - Seems to go just to the fundraising page, and so reads like an Easter egg link to me, since it isn't informing people about Wikipedia. Could I encourage people to have some more thoughtful and widely accessible design discussions about these things. I know we need fundraisers, but the layout of this appeal seems poorly designed. -Robert Rohde

Casey Brown

2:33 a.m.

On 10/22/07, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

A pink box with scrolling text, often in foreign languages, really?

Well... they illustrate donation comments spoken in many of the languages that Wikipedia has wikis for.

...

"*What you don't know about us...* (See more)" - Seems to go just to the fundraising page, and so reads like an Easter egg link to me, since it isn't informing people about Wikipedia.

What you didn't know about us... leads to: $200 – We can make Wikipedia available in developing countries through DVDs, books and pamphlets. $100 – We can pay for two Wikipedia Academy events in Africa. $60 – We can send three students to our annual Wikimania conference. $40 – We can deliver 100 million pageviews of free information! I certainly did not know about that, did you?

...

Could I encourage people to have some more thoughtful and widely accessible design discussions about these things.

more thoughful? They've been preparing this fundraiser for months, if you want your ideas heard, please tell them /before/ the fundraiser starts. I know we need fundraisers, but the layout of this appeal seems poorly

...

designed.

Perhaps you can contribute ideas for next year's fundraiser? -Robert Rohde

...

_______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

James Farrar

2:37 a.m.

On 23/10/2007, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

more thoughful? They've been preparing this fundraiser for months, if you want your ideas heard, please tell them /before/ the fundraiser starts.

A person can only contribute to a discussion if he knows of its existence and location.

Casey Brown

2:43 a.m.

Good point. :-) However, if you wanted to say something but didn't know where to say it, you could have just asked for help on foundation or Meta-Wiki. On 10/22/07, James Farrar <james.farrar(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 23/10/2007, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

more thoughful? They've been preparing this fundraiser for months, if

you

want your ideas heard, please tell them /before/ the fundraiser starts.

A person can only contribute to a discussion if he knows of its existence and location. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

Robert Rohde

2:44 a.m.

Kindly point to where on EN that any design discussion was advertised? Or for that matter, point to the forum where the design of the banner was publically discussed at all? EN is still more than 50% of all Wikipedia traffic (according to Alexa) and I bet most regular contributors were unaware a fundraiser was coming let alone that there was a design discussion (assumming there was a discussion). -Robert Rohde On 10/22/07, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 10/22/07, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote:

A pink box with scrolling text, often in foreign languages, really?

Well... they illustrate donation comments spoken in many of the languages that Wikipedia has wikis for.

"*What you don't know about us...* (See more)" - Seems to go just to the fundraising page, and so reads like an Easter egg link to me, since it isn't informing people about Wikipedia.

Could I encourage people to have some more thoughtful and widely accessible design discussions about these things.

designed.

Perhaps you can contribute ideas for next year's fundraiser? -Robert Rohde

_______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Casey Brown

2:55 a.m.

On 10/22/07, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Kindly point to where on EN that any design discussion was advertised? Or for that matter, point to the forum where the design of the banner was publically discussed at all?

Who said the discussion was advertised on en? I didn't even say that any of us could have participated in the discussion, but they could have provided comments or opinions to those who /did/ organize it. EN is still more than 50% of all Wikipedia traffic (according to Alexa) and

...

I bet most regular contributors were unaware a fundraiser was coming let alone that there was a design discussion (assumming there was a discussion).

Valid point, but what does that have to do with this? (There was not a public discussion, at least not that I was aware of.) All comments can go to: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising_2007 but please try not to repeat the same concerns as other people (i.e. don't all of you post that the notice is ugly). For those interested in the Wikimedia Foundation and its fundraisers (not just the English Wikipedia), the fundraiser was a public date that was announced a while ago. If you wish to be kept up to date on Foundation matters, sign up for Foundation-l http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l. -Robert Rohde

...

On 10/22/07, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/22/07, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote:

A pink box with scrolling text, often in foreign languages, really?

Well... they illustrate donation comments spoken in many of the

languages

that Wikipedia has wikis for. > "*What you don't know about us...* (See more)" - Seems to go just to

the

fundraising page, and so reads like an Easter egg link to me, since it isn't informing people about Wikipedia.

Could I encourage people to have some more thoughtful and widely accessible design discussions about these things.

more thoughful? They've been preparing this fundraiser for months, if

you

want your ideas heard, please tell them /before/ the fundraiser starts. I know we need fundraisers, but the layout of this appeal seems poorly

designed.

Perhaps you can contribute ideas for next year's fundraiser? -Robert Rohde

_______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

Robert Rohde

3:08 a.m.

On 10/22/07, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 10/22/07, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Kindly point to where on EN that any design discussion was

advertised? Or

for that matter, point to the forum where the design of the banner was publically discussed at all?

I bet most regular contributors were unaware a fundraiser was coming let alone that there was a design discussion (assumming there was a discussion).

Well, now there is a public discussion on EN with more than a few people advocating blocking this message out entirely and creating a more reasonable one for EN. -Robert Rohde

Casey Brown

3:14 a.m.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Switch… is the link, for all those wondering. On 10/22/07, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 10/22/07, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/22/07, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Kindly point to where on EN that any design discussion was

advertised? Or

for that matter, point to the forum where the design of the banner was publically discussed at all?

Who said the discussion was advertised on en? I didn't even say that

any

of us could have participated in the discussion, but they could have

provided

comments or opinions to those who /did/ organize it. EN is still more than 50% of all Wikipedia traffic (according to Alexa) and > I bet most regular contributors were unaware a fundraiser was coming

let

alone that there was a design discussion (assumming there was a discussion).

Valid point, but what does that have to do with this? (There was not a public discussion, at least not that I was aware of.) All comments can

to: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising_2007 but please try not to repeat the same concerns as other people (i.e. don't all of you post that the notice is ugly). For those interested in the Wikimedia Foundation

and

its fundraisers (not just the English Wikipedia), the fundraiser was a public date that was announced a while ago. If you wish to be kept up

date on Foundation matters, sign up for Foundation-l http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l.

Well, now there is a public discussion on EN with more than a few people advocating blocking this message out entirely and creating a more reasonable one for EN. -Robert Rohde _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

Majorly

3:19 a.m.

On 23/10/2007, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Switch… is the link, for all those wondering. On 10/22/07, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/22/07, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 10/22/07, Robert Rohde <rarohde(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Kindly point to where on EN that any design discussion was > advertised? Or > > for that matter, point to the forum where the design of the banner

was

publically discussed at all?

Who said the discussion was advertised on en? I didn't even say that

any

of us could have participated in the discussion, but they could have

provided > comments or opinions to those who /did/ organize it. > > EN is still more than 50% of all Wikipedia traffic (according to

Alexa)

and > I bet most regular contributors were unaware a fundraiser was coming

let > > alone that there was a design discussion (assumming there was a > > discussion). > > > Valid point, but what does that have to do with this? (There was not a > public discussion, at least not that I was aware of.) All comments

can

go > to: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising_2007 but please

try

> not > to repeat the same concerns as other people (i.e. don't all of you

post

that the notice is ugly). For those interested in the Wikimedia Foundation

and

its fundraisers (not just the English Wikipedia), the fundraiser was a public date that was announced a while ago. If you wish to be kept up

date on Foundation matters, sign up for Foundation-l http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l.

Well, now there is a public discussion on EN with more than a few

people

advocating blocking this message out entirely and creating a more reasonable one for EN. -Robert Rohde _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Since it's not an administrators issue, there is a more appropriate venue here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Common.css#Inane_Sitenotice -- Alex (Majorly) http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Majorly

Casey Brown

3:28 a.m.

It's being fiddled with and adjusted based on various concerns brought up, more changes shall be made within the coming hours/days. -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

Casey Brown

3:31 a.m.

The banner has been adjusted to no longer scroll; see [[w:Wikipedia:Purge]] for help on clearing your cache and viewing the updated version. On 10/22/07, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

Vee

12:37 p.m.

On 23/10/2007, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Switch… is the link, for all those wondering.

That discussion is flabbergasting. All this talk of it being 'sprung' on them; I remember the fundraiser being announced ages ago. God, how typical of people to ignore announcements and then complain when the change occurs. Especially when they should be grateful that they have wikipedia at all, let alone have to 'put up with' one image at the top of the screen.

Vee

12:38 p.m.

Furthermore, comments like "Bugger the Foundation. Some things are worth getting de-sysopped for. --Carnildo<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Carnildo>01:31, 23 October 2007 (UTC)" are incredibly unhelpful and overdramatic. What the hell. It's just one image. Deal with it. On 23/10/2007, Vee <vee.be.me(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 23/10/2007, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Switch… is the link, for all those wondering.

Mark Wagner

7:26 p.m.

On 10/23/07, Vee <vee.be.me(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

It sounds like you didn't see the original ad. The original ad featured a scrolling marquee banner that, if anything, would greatly reduce donations and drive people away from Wikipedia. If you look at my original post, I never even saw the image. -- Mark [[User:Carnildo]]

Bryan Derksen

2:55 a.m.

Casey Brown wrote:

...

Perhaps you can contribute ideas for next year's fundraiser?

I wouldn't have thought the following ideas _needed_ to be contributed, but okay: * Since each Wikipedia is focused on speakers of a particular language, have the fundraising banner be in that particular language on each Wikipedia. * Include some mention of what the fundraising is _for_. I've been here since forever and it still took me a moment to realize what was going on when I first saw it. * Test out significant interface changes on all of the available skins, not just the default one.

Casey Brown

3 a.m.

On 10/22/07, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen(a)shaw.ca> wrote:

...

Casey Brown wrote:

Perhaps you can contribute ideas for next year's fundraiser?

The English Wikipedia is an exeception, we have people from many different background and native languages. The text in the banner was *all* comments made by previous donors to the Wikimedia Foundation (it is exactly what they said, in whichever language they wrote it in). * Include some mention of what the fundraising is _for_. I've been here

...

since forever and it still took me a moment to realize what was going on when I first saw it.

This is all linked from that main notice. The main bar links to < http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Fundraising> which has a navigation bar that includes: < http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Planned_Spending_Distribution_2007-2008

...

* Test out significant interface changes on all of the available skins,

...

not just the default one.

I assume this has been done and the problems are probably browser-based, not related to the skins (too early to know now, the notice just went up today). But you can contact Brion (brion[at]wikimedia(dot)org) for more information about this. _______________________________________________

...

WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

Bryan Derksen

6:54 a.m.

Casey Brown wrote:

...

since forever and it still took me a moment to realize what was going on when I first saw it.

Both of these are needlessly evasive ways of asking for donations. Neither of them comes out and actually says what the point of the banner is, and there's no way I'm going to be bothered clicking on a link in a banner ad when I don't even know what it's for.

...

* Test out significant interface changes on all of the available skins,

not just the default one.

I'm using the latest Firefox, which isn't exactly a niche browser and is generally quite standards-compliant. I'm not trying to harp and I'm not personally put out by this since I've made it vanish already with that CSS trick. But I don't think it's a good idea to dismiss serious concerns like this. The vast majority of our readers don't even have accounts, or if they do they have no idea how to tweak their CSS. I've actually done it before to get rid of other notices I consider annoying and I still didn't think to look at the page source myself to see if there was a class or id I could blot out.

Parker Conrad

1:39 a.m.

I think that's a solicitation to donate to the mw foundation. /prc On 10/22/07, Mark Wagner <carnildo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Casey Brown

1:48 a.m.

wm* (Wikimedia Foundation) On 10/22/07, Parker Conrad <parkerconrad(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I think that's a solicitation to donate to the mw foundation. /prc On 10/22/07, Mark Wagner <carnildo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

_______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

Eugene van der Pijll

1:42 a.m.

Mark Wagner schreef:

...

Yes, it's the new WMF fundraiser. Unfortunately, it is hardcoded, and cannot be removed by en.admins, but User:Krimpet has added a dismiss button to Common.js now. If that doesn't work, add div#siteNotice {display:none} or table.fundraiser-box {display:none} to your monobook.css (depending on whether you want to hide all future sitenotices or only the fundraising ones). Eugene

Bryan Derksen

2:14 a.m.

Eugene van der Pijll wrote:

...

Mark Wagner schreef:

Yes, it's the new WMF fundraiser. Unfortunately, it is hardcoded, and cannot be removed by en.admins, but User:Krimpet has added a dismiss button to Common.js now.

I'm using the classic skin and I don't see a dismiss button. Who hardcoded it, and how do we get him or her to at least add some kind of explanation as to what that scrolly pink thing actually is?

...

If that doesn't work, add div#siteNotice {display:none} or table.fundraiser-box {display:none} to your monobook.css (depending on whether you want to hide all future sitenotices or only the fundraising ones).

Heh. I added the table.fundraiser-box one to my standard.css, and now the banner's gone and the missing "dismiss" link replaced it. Fortunately clicking the dismiss link dismissed it. :)

Casey Brown

2:30 a.m.

On 10/22/07, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen(a)shaw.ca> wrote:

...

Eugene van der Pijll wrote:

Mark Wagner schreef:

Yes, it's the new WMF fundraiser. Unfortunately, it is hardcoded, and cannot be removed by en.admins, but User:Krimpet has added a dismiss button to Common.js now.

I'm using the classic skin and I don't see a dismiss button. Who hardcoded it, and how do we get him or her to at least add some kind of explanation as to what that scrolly pink thing actually is?

Ummm... Brion Vibber, the Chief Technical Officer (bion[at]wikimedia(dot)org), hard-coded it I believe...

...

If that

doesn't work, add div#siteNotice {display:none} or table.fundraiser-box {display:none} to your monobook.css (depending on whether you want to hide all future sitenotices or only the fundraising ones).

Heh. I added the table.fundraiser-box one to my standard.css, and now the banner's gone and the missing "dismiss" link replaced it. Fortunately clicking the dismiss link dismissed it. :) _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

Casey Brown

2:31 a.m.

er, brion* (not bion) On 10/22/07, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 10/22/07, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen(a)shaw.ca> wrote:

Eugene van der Pijll wrote:

Mark Wagner schreef: > I just opened up the article on [[BioShock]], and there's some sort

> banner ad scrolling French text across the top. I can't see any > vandalism in the article history or any of the templates it

uses. I'm

pretty sure I don't have a spyware problem, since I'm running Gentoo Linux. Has a spammer somehow gotten access to the user interface?

Yes, it's the new WMF fundraiser. Unfortunately, it is hardcoded, and cannot be removed by en.admins,

but

User:Krimpet has added a dismiss button to Common.js now.

I'm using the classic skin and I don't see a dismiss button. Who hardcoded it, and how do we get him or her to at least add some kind of explanation as to what that scrolly pink thing actually is?

Ummm... Brion Vibber, the Chief Technical Officer (bion[at]wikimedia(dot)org), hard-coded it I believe...

If that

doesn't work, add div#siteNotice {display:none} or

table.fundraiser-box

{display:none} to your monobook.css (depending on whether you want to hide all future sitenotices or only the fundraising ones).

-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 --- Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.

Erik Moeller

2:10 a.m.

On 10/23/07, Mark Wagner <carnildo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

A screenshot of what I'm seeing is at http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/Carnildo/Forums/bannerad.png

Which browser is that? -- Toward Peace, Love & Progress: Erik DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.

Mark Wagner

2:27 a.m.

On 10/22/07, Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

On 10/23/07, Mark Wagner <carnildo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

A screenshot of what I'm seeing is at http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/Carnildo/Forums/bannerad.png

Which browser is that?

Opera with images set to load on demand, using the "Classic" Wikipedia skin. -- Mark [[User:Carnildo]]

Erik Moeller

2:34 a.m.

On 10/23/07, Mark Wagner <carnildo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Opera with images set to load on demand, using the "Classic" Wikipedia skin.

Oi. If you want your world to be ugly, your world shall be ugly. ;-) -- Toward Peace, Love & Progress: Erik DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.

Mark Wagner

2:46 a.m.

On 10/22/07, Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

On 10/23/07, Mark Wagner <carnildo(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Opera with images set to load on demand, using the "Classic" Wikipedia skin.

Oi. If you want your world to be ugly, your world shall be ugly. ;-)

Ugly, yes, but at least it doesn't (normally) have flickering motion in my peripheral vision. -- Mark [[User:Carnildo]]

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participants (11)

Bryan Derksen
Casey Brown
Erik Moeller
Eugene van der Pijll
James Farrar
Majorly
Mark Wagner
Parker Conrad
Phil Sandifer
Robert Rohde
Vee