2009/8/25 Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net:
The latest estimate is 2 weeks time, or probably a bit later. A trial of it on a test wiki started today.
And this is the proposal that's being tried:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Flagged_protection_and_patrolled_revi...
So, two months of it live to see how this runs?
Another thought: this is actually more open than just locking the article. :-)
- d.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:43 PM, David Gerarddgerard@gmail.com wrote:
2009/8/25 Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net:
The latest estimate is 2 weeks time, or probably a bit later. A trial of it on a test wiki started today.
And this is the proposal that's being tried:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Flagged_protection_and_patrolled_revi...
So, two months of it live to see how this runs?
Another thought: this is actually more open than just locking the article. :-)
Try and read up on as much of the reliable on-wiki stuff as you can, and try and get in touch with people who will be talking about it at Wikimania maybe? And mention Wikimania, where I believe it will be discussed.
Are you actually going to be in the studio or will it be via a sat link? And is it just you or others as well? How long are you going to get? And what colour is your tie! :-)
Carcharoth
Brion's blog: http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2009/08/weekly-wiki-tech-update-pre-wikimania-...
Risker
2009/8/25 Carcharoth carcharothwp@googlemail.com
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:43 PM, David Gerarddgerard@gmail.com wrote:
2009/8/25 Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net:
The latest estimate is 2 weeks time, or probably a bit later. A trial of it on a test wiki started today.
And this is the proposal that's being tried:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Flagged_protection_and_patrolled_revi...
So, two months of it live to see how this runs?
Another thought: this is actually more open than just locking the
article. :-)
Try and read up on as much of the reliable on-wiki stuff as you can, and try and get in touch with people who will be talking about it at Wikimania maybe? And mention Wikimania, where I believe it will be discussed.
Are you actually going to be in the studio or will it be via a sat link? And is it just you or others as well? How long are you going to get? And what colour is your tie! :-)
Carcharoth
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
2009/8/25 Carcharoth carcharothwp@googlemail.com:
Try and read up on as much of the reliable on-wiki stuff as you can, and try and get in touch with people who will be talking about it at Wikimania maybe? And mention Wikimania, where I believe it will be discussed.
I don't want to confuse stuff at all. I just confused the hell out of the researcher on the phone trying to keep stuff simple ... so it's going to be REALLY DUMB SOUNDBITES ALL THE WAY.
Are you actually going to be in the studio or will it be via a sat link? And is it just you or others as well? How long are you going to get? And what colour is your tie! :-)
Studio. Black, black as my SOULLLL.
It's 7:50pm and they haven't called back to confirm. Could be false alarm, I'll let you all know ;-)
- d.
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
It's 7:50pm and they haven't called back to confirm. Could be false alarm, I'll let you all know ;-)
Are you going to be on or not? If so, I'll watch. I don't usually, but the flagged revisions thing is particularly interesting! Good luck David!
2009/8/25 Isabell Long isabell121@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
It's 7:50pm and they haven't called back to confirm. Could be false alarm, I'll let you all know ;-)
Are you going to be on or not? If so, I'll watch. I don't usually, but the flagged revisions thing is particularly interesting! Good luck David!
Looks like it's a happener. Just waiting for call re: cab. Apparently on ~9:45pm (BST), but times may change at short notice.
- d.
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 Isabell Long isabell121@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
It's 7:50pm and they haven't called back to confirm. Could be false alarm, I'll let you all know ;-)
Are you going to be on or not? If so, I'll watch. I don't usually, but the flagged revisions thing is particularly interesting! Good luck David!
Looks like it's a happener. Just waiting for call re: cab. Apparently on ~9:45pm (BST), but times may change at short notice.
Knock 'em dead!
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 Isabell Long isabell121@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
It's 7:50pm and they haven't called back to confirm. Could be false alarm, I'll let you all know ;-)
Are you going to be on or not? If so, I'll watch. I don't usually, but the flagged revisions thing is particularly interesting! Good luck David!
Looks like it's a happener. Just waiting for call re: cab. Apparently on ~9:45pm (BST), but times may change at short notice.
Hang on, Newsnight doesn't start until 10:30pm. Did you mean ~10:45pm?
2009/8/25 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
Looks like it's a happener. Just waiting for call re: cab. Apparently on ~9:45pm (BST), but times may change at short notice.
Hang on, Newsnight doesn't start until 10:30pm. Did you mean ~10:45pm?
Evidently :-)
- d.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:57 PM, David Gerarddgerard@gmail.com wrote:
2009/8/25 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
Looks like it's a happener. Just waiting for call re: cab. Apparently on ~9:45pm (BST), but times may change at short notice.
Hang on, Newsnight doesn't start until 10:30pm. Did you mean ~10:45pm?
Evidently :-)
And at the end of the program as well. After the interesting feature on the Spanish Civil War legacy 70 years on. And the daily news round up, it was time for Wikipedia!
How do you think it went, David? I like the bit you said right at the end about how it was a surprise that Wikipedia became so popular, but though I've got it recorded on DVD, I haven't re-watched it yet. I got the impression the presenter (Paxman must be on holiday) and the Guardian guy were saying quite a bit, and you were wanting to correct them on some points, but didn't get much of a chance.
Carcharoth
2009/8/26 Carcharoth carcharothwp@googlemail.com:
How do you think it went, David? I like the bit you said right at the end about how it was a surprise that Wikipedia became so popular, but though I've got it recorded on DVD, I haven't re-watched it yet. I got the impression the presenter (Paxman must be on holiday) and the Guardian guy were saying quite a bit, and you were wanting to correct them on some points, but didn't get much of a chance.
They had me on with Kevin Anderson from the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/kevinanderson http://strange.corante.com/
I actually met him at a London wikimeet a few years ago (at that horrible noisy football pub James F. had suggested) with his fiancee (now wife) Suw Charman, who at the time was executive director of the Open Rights Group. Thus demonstrating that everyone knows everyone. (After the interview, Kevin and I geeked about how both our first computers were TRS-80s :-D )
Kevin is someone who Knows His Shit about the Internet. Basically we sat there agreeing on everything. Kirsty Wark was somewhat surprised to have two guests furiously agree ;-)
I really couldn't fault anything he was saying. In the context of that *horrible* intro it didn't sound great, but he basically really does get it. He spoke of the "elites" a lot (meaning the top editors), which is technically correct but will fuel the conspiracy theorists.(The connotations of the word as "pretentious" or "oppressors". I'd *hope* the hours-a-day editors don't act like pretentious oppressors ...) Oh well.
And I got to call my fellow Wikipedians "encyclopedia nerds" on national television ;-p
- d.
2009/8/26 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
Kevin is someone who Knows His Shit about the Internet. Basically we sat there agreeing on everything. Kirsty Wark was somewhat surprised to have two guests furiously agree ;-)
I'd been wondering who else they would have on. They usually like to have both sides of an issue represented, but really the two sides here are the media and people that know what is actually going on. They ended up getting someone from the media that knew what was going on! Probably not what they were actually aiming for, but it was inevitable that that is what they would get.
I really couldn't fault anything he was saying. In the context of that *horrible* intro it didn't sound great, but he basically really does get it. He spoke of the "elites" a lot (meaning the top editors), which is technically correct but will fuel the conspiracy theorists.(The connotations of the word as "pretentious" or "oppressors". I'd *hope* the hours-a-day editors don't act like pretentious oppressors ...) Oh well.
Yes, I thought everything he said was broadly accurate and fair. Unfortunately, he was forced into saying it in response to leading questions that meant it ended up with a slant on it that I don't think he intended.
And I got to call my fellow Wikipedians "encyclopedia nerds" on national television ;-p
I prefer "geek" myself, but I'll forgive you!
2009/8/26 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
2009/8/26 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
And I got to call my fellow Wikipedians "encyclopedia nerds" on national television ;-p
I prefer "geek" myself, but I'll forgive you!
Top 10 site, that's prima facie evidence of usefulness. I suppose that advances us from "nerds" to "geeks".
- d.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:38 AM, David Gerarddgerard@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>
And I got to call my fellow Wikipedians "encyclopedia nerds" on national television ;-p
:-)
They used the example of Ted Kennedy in the intro, didn't they? I'm wondering how close you both came to being asked about that and how real death reports get handled (I think the news broke a few hours later).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy
Currently has a big "pp-semi-vandalism" template on it, as well as the "recent deaths" one.
Carcharoth
Carcharoth wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:57 PM, David Gerarddgerard@gmail.com wrote:
2009/8/25 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
Looks like it's a happener. Just waiting for call re: cab. Apparently on ~9:45pm (BST), but times may change at short notice.
Hang on, Newsnight doesn't start until 10:30pm. Did you mean ~10:45pm?
Evidently :-)
And at the end of the program as well. After the interesting feature on the Spanish Civil War legacy 70 years on. And the daily news round up, it was time for Wikipedia!
How do you think it went, David? I like the bit you said right at the end about how it was a surprise that Wikipedia became so popular, but though I've got it recorded on DVD, I haven't re-watched it yet. I got the impression the presenter (Paxman must be on holiday) and the Guardian guy were saying quite a bit, and you were wanting to correct them on some points, but didn't get much of a chance.
Carcharoth
The item seems to have been crammed in as a bit of an afterthought, and although the Spanish Civil War legacy is interesting, it's not particularly time-critical. It seems to have been rushed, and although the Guardian commentator seems to have been largely supportive, it would have meant very little to a previously uninformed viewer. Although it seems to have been vaunted as a major shift in emphasis on WP, it should have been pointed out more strongly as (a) a trial (b) based on previous experience at de:wp and (c) not that much different from what already happens. I'm sorry David didn't get the chance to put that forward, but then, that is journalism as opposed to analysis. It remains to be seen whether they'll follow it up, but of course, Parliament is on vacation and we are in the "silly season". I suppose we should be grateful for some exposure, and not bad at that. ~~~~
Don't know if this has been posted yet (apologies if yes)
Recording available on iplayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/newsnight (intro at the very start and then from 38:50). Not sure if non-UK people can view .
----- "Phil Nash" pn007a2145@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
From: "Phil Nash" pn007a2145@blueyonder.co.uk To: "English Wikipedia" wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, 26 August, 2009 00:53:56 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight tonight! re: flaggedrevs
Carcharoth wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:57 PM, David Gerarddgerard@gmail.com wrote:
2009/8/25 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
Looks like it's a happener. Just waiting for call re: cab. Apparently on ~9:45pm (BST), but times may change at short notice.
Hang on, Newsnight doesn't start until 10:30pm. Did you mean ~10:45pm?
Evidently :-)
And at the end of the program as well. After the interesting feature on the Spanish Civil War legacy 70 years on. And the daily news round up, it was time for Wikipedia!
How do you think it went, David? I like the bit you said right at the end about how it was a surprise that Wikipedia became so popular, but though I've got it recorded on DVD, I haven't re-watched it yet. I got the impression the presenter (Paxman must be on holiday) and the Guardian guy were saying quite a bit, and you were wanting to correct them on some points, but didn't get much of a chance.
Carcharoth
The item seems to have been crammed in as a bit of an afterthought, and although the Spanish Civil War legacy is interesting, it's not particularly time-critical. It seems to have been rushed, and although the Guardian commentator seems to have been largely supportive, it would have meant very little to a previously uninformed viewer. Although it seems to have been vaunted as a major shift in emphasis on WP, it should have been pointed out more strongly as (a) a trial (b) based on previous experience at de:wp and (c) not that much different from what already happens. I'm sorry David didn't get the chance to put that forward, but then, that is journalism as opposed to analysis. It remains to be seen whether they'll follow it up, but of course, Parliament is on vacation and we are in the "silly season". I suppose we should be grateful for some exposure, and not bad at that. ~~~~
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
It's also in snippet form at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8222397.stm
I have no idea whether this works outside the UK, though...
Mike
On 26 Aug 2009, at 12:12, Andrew Turvey wrote:
Don't know if this has been posted yet (apologies if yes)
Recording available on iplayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ newsnight (intro at the very start and then from 38:50). Not sure if non-UK people can view .
----- "Phil Nash" pn007a2145@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
From: "Phil Nash" pn007a2145@blueyonder.co.uk To: "English Wikipedia" wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, 26 August, 2009 00:53:56 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight tonight! re: flaggedrevs
Carcharoth wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:57 PM, David Gerarddgerard@gmail.com wrote:
2009/8/25 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
> Looks like it's a happener. Just waiting for call re: cab. > Apparently on ~9:45pm (BST), but times may change at short > notice.
Hang on, Newsnight doesn't start until 10:30pm. Did you mean ~10:45pm?
Evidently :-)
And at the end of the program as well. After the interesting feature on the Spanish Civil War legacy 70 years on. And the daily news round up, it was time for Wikipedia!
How do you think it went, David? I like the bit you said right at the end about how it was a surprise that Wikipedia became so popular, but though I've got it recorded on DVD, I haven't re-watched it yet. I got the impression the presenter (Paxman must be on holiday) and the Guardian guy were saying quite a bit, and you were wanting to correct them on some points, but didn't get much of a chance.
Carcharoth
The item seems to have been crammed in as a bit of an afterthought, and although the Spanish Civil War legacy is interesting, it's not particularly time-critical. It seems to have been rushed, and although the Guardian commentator seems to have been largely supportive, it would have meant very little to a previously uninformed viewer. Although it seems to have been vaunted as a major shift in emphasis on WP, it should have been pointed out more strongly as (a) a trial (b) based on previous experience at de:wp and (c) not that much different from what already happens. I'm sorry David didn't get the chance to put that forward, but then, that is journalism as opposed to analysis. It remains to be seen whether they'll follow it up, but of course, Parliament is on vacation and we are in the "silly season". I suppose we should be grateful for some exposure, and not bad at that. ~~~~
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
It's also in snippet form at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8222397.stm
I have no idea whether this works outside the UK, though...
That link worked for me, the whole show link about did not.
Props to David who did a good job of addressing the questions and sounding very cogent (even though the host seemed to want to portray it as "THE END... Maybe?" of Wikipedia).
--Falcorian
Just to mention, the whole show also had an introductory piece by newsnight explaining the changes, which was then followed by the interview which is linked below.
----- "Falcorian" alex.public.account+ENWikiMailingList@gmail.com wrote:
From: "Falcorian" alex.public.account+ENWikiMailingList@gmail.com To: "English Wikipedia" wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, 26 August, 2009 19:22:55 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] [Wikimediauk-l] BBC Newsnight tonight! re: flaggedrevs
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
It's also in snippet form at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8222397.stm
I have no idea whether this works outside the UK, though...
That link worked for me, the whole show link about did not.
Props to David who did a good job of addressing the questions and sounding very cogent (even though the host seemed to want to portray it as "THE END... Maybe?" of Wikipedia).
--Falcorian _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
2009/8/25 David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com:
I don't want to confuse stuff at all. I just confused the hell out of the researcher on the phone trying to keep stuff simple ... so it's going to be REALLY DUMB SOUNDBITES ALL THE WAY.
Points I'd try to remember, in no particular order:
* this isn't locking down editing, it's more open than it sounds * it's to a large degree an anti-vandalism tool, to stop articles being degraded, rather than to limit them improving - it's not for content control, we have protection for that * it's worked on dewiki so far - some problems, mostly delays, we'll see if they recur, but it's not caused a complete collapse of everything * we've been thinking about this for a long time, unlike some past changes
Final details will be announced soon, this is all provisional, maybe mention something about Wikimania as an ongoing conference where the details will emerge.
The other thing, of course, is emphasising the BLP article part of it - we want to get these right, we have less room to screw up there - but I don't know how much we want to play that if it's still unclear what the final rollout is going to be!
There's a bit over 400,000 BLPs out of 3m plus articles; that's a bit under 15% of all our articles. It's hard to say what proportion of our pageviews that represent, but I would put a small amount of money on "more than average". We certainly know they have a disproportionate effect in terms of the amount of complaints and corrections we get sent; around a third of articles we get contacted about are BLPs.
2009/8/25 Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk:
Final details will be announced soon, this is all provisional, maybe mention something about Wikimania as an ongoing conference where the details will emerge.
Thinking about it, this is probably the best one to hammer on. We don't know precised details of implementation; it's not formally announced yet, and we've been discussing various different methods for a long time. It'll all be clear soon, but here are the philosophical bases we're working from:
(and talking points)