folks hi,
i am a long-time wikipedia user and long-time and low-volume editor, and a significant contributor to the strategic roadmap of wikipedia which occurred a few years ago. i returned to edit a page and found that the IP address of the HTTP proxy that i use had been blocked. i was reminded of an extreme intimidation incident which clearly violated the spirit of trusting people to contribute to wikipedia, so thought it best to alert you of this.
the editing last year was carried out - accidentally - anonymously and using my usual style of making several incremental edits in rapid succession so as not to lose track of the information being added. i was unpleasantly surprised to find that in the middle of the editing the *entire* set of edits had been reverted. i had encountered the user who carried out the blanket reversion before (when logged in) and he's what one might call a "wiki nazi": very experienced at "the rules", and uses them to bullying effect rather than works *with* a less-experienced contributor, usually by doing total-revert in a highly disruptive manner.
things escalated and a number of idiots piled in, citing the anonymity as a means to "attack" wikipedia, whereas in fact it was purely accidental, but the bullying and the lack of trust shown was the reason why i chose to *remain* anonymous.
the article in question i refuse to name publicly because it will identify me instantly to the bullies from whom i still wish to remain anonymous.
it was a corner-case technical article full of technically inaccurate technically unsubstantiated and speculative "wishful thinking" on the part of former editors. i.e. former editors *wish* that the technology would be successful, but are unfortunately dreadfully misinformed on basic maths and physics. the problem is: the lack of success of anyone to create a commercially successful version of this technology in over 100 years makes it very difficult to provide any kind of "wikipedia-acceptable" citations as to why there are no commercially successful versions of this technology.
the article therefore continues to mis-inform people rather badly. a quick check shows that the page has since been updated, but the core concerns remain as the page is completely lacking basic math and physics references, as well as having since been marked as requiring citations.
so there are several things that need to be resolved - bear in mind that i am *not* prepared to help publicly resolve this unless the people who carried out the intimidation are taken to task first:
1) the people who carried out the intimidation and accusations need to be reminded of the spirit of wikipedia to *trust* contributors rather than automatically assume that they have malicious intent
2) the IP address of my HTTP proxy is to be removed. it's utterly pointless to block IP addresses based on an *individual's* assessment, when there are things such as "Tor" and other truly anonymous proxies. anyone wishing to truly vandalise wikipedia could do so with extreme prejudice in an automated fashion, and they would certainly not use an HTTP proxy where a simple reverse-DNS lookup would quickly identify them.
once these things have been done then i am prepared to assist further in resolving the subtly misleading parts of the article. i am happy to provide the details *privately* to more senior individuals within the wikipedia foundation such that an investigation can be made.
my efforts to improve wikipedia's accuracy are genuine and sincere, but as a very low-traffic part-time editor of highly-technical corner-case articles i simply don't have time to go learning all the "rules": i'm just not interested, to be absolutely frank. i'm happy to work with people who are sincere and accommodating who truly welcome technical input.
l.
The problem with open proxies is that anyone can use them; lists of them are published. They are blocked routinely due mainly to spambots which create many accounts and insert nonsense, usually with links to dubious commercial sources.
I recommend you create an anonymous account and edit in that way.
Fred
folks hi,
i am a long-time wikipedia user and long-time and low-volume editor, and a significant contributor to the strategic roadmap of wikipedia which occurred a few years ago. i returned to edit a page and found that the IP address of the HTTP proxy that i use had been blocked. i was reminded of an extreme intimidation incident which clearly violated the spirit of trusting people to contribute to wikipedia, so thought it best to alert you of this.
the editing last year was carried out - accidentally - anonymously and using my usual style of making several incremental edits in rapid succession so as not to lose track of the information being added. i was unpleasantly surprised to find that in the middle of the editing the *entire* set of edits had been reverted. i had encountered the user who carried out the blanket reversion before (when logged in) and he's what one might call a "wiki nazi": very experienced at "the rules", and uses them to bullying effect rather than works *with* a less-experienced contributor, usually by doing total-revert in a highly disruptive manner.
things escalated and a number of idiots piled in, citing the anonymity as a means to "attack" wikipedia, whereas in fact it was purely accidental, but the bullying and the lack of trust shown was the reason why i chose to *remain* anonymous.
the article in question i refuse to name publicly because it will identify me instantly to the bullies from whom i still wish to remain anonymous.
it was a corner-case technical article full of technically inaccurate technically unsubstantiated and speculative "wishful thinking" on the part of former editors. i.e. former editors *wish* that the technology would be successful, but are unfortunately dreadfully misinformed on basic maths and physics. the problem is: the lack of success of anyone to create a commercially successful version of this technology in over 100 years makes it very difficult to provide any kind of "wikipedia-acceptable" citations as to why there are no commercially successful versions of this technology.
the article therefore continues to mis-inform people rather badly. a quick check shows that the page has since been updated, but the core concerns remain as the page is completely lacking basic math and physics references, as well as having since been marked as requiring citations.
so there are several things that need to be resolved - bear in mind that i am *not* prepared to help publicly resolve this unless the people who carried out the intimidation are taken to task first:
- the people who carried out the intimidation and accusations need to
be reminded of the spirit of wikipedia to *trust* contributors rather than automatically assume that they have malicious intent
- the IP address of my HTTP proxy is to be removed. it's utterly
pointless to block IP addresses based on an *individual's* assessment, when there are things such as "Tor" and other truly anonymous proxies. anyone wishing to truly vandalise wikipedia could do so with extreme prejudice in an automated fashion, and they would certainly not use an HTTP proxy where a simple reverse-DNS lookup would quickly identify them.
once these things have been done then i am prepared to assist further in resolving the subtly misleading parts of the article. i am happy to provide the details *privately* to more senior individuals within the wikipedia foundation such that an investigation can be made.
my efforts to improve wikipedia's accuracy are genuine and sincere, but as a very low-traffic part-time editor of highly-technical corner-case articles i simply don't have time to go learning all the "rules": i'm just not interested, to be absolutely frank. i'm happy to work with people who are sincere and accommodating who truly welcome technical input.
l.
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On Jul 1, 2013 11:26 AM, "luke.leighton" luke.leighton@gmail.com wrote:
folks hi,
i am a long-time wikipedia user and long-time and low-volume editor, and a significant contributor to the strategic roadmap of wikipedia which occurred a few years ago. i returned to edit a page and found that the IP address of the HTTP proxy that i use had been blocked. i was reminded of an extreme intimidation incident which clearly violated the spirit of trusting people to contribute to wikipedia, so thought it best to alert you of this.
the editing last year was carried out - accidentally - anonymously and using my usual style of making several incremental edits in rapid succession so as not to lose track of the information being added. i was unpleasantly surprised to find that in the middle of the editing the *entire* set of edits had been reverted.
Deplorable. Has it been fixed yet?
i had encountered the
user who carried out the blanket reversion before (when logged in) and he's what one might call a "wiki nazi": very experienced at "the rules", and uses them to bullying effect rather than works *with* a less-experienced contributor, usually by doing total-revert in a highly disruptive manner.
things escalated and a number of idiots piled in, citing the anonymity as a means to "attack" wikipedia, whereas in fact it was purely accidental, but the bullying and the lack of trust shown was the reason why i chose to *remain* anonymous.
Using an account under a pseudonym makes you more anonymous than editing while logged out.
the article in question i refuse to name publicly because it will identify me instantly to the bullies from whom i still wish to remain anonymous.
While I understand the sentiment, it does make it virtually impossible to address what's been going on here.
it was a corner-case technical article full of technically inaccurate technically unsubstantiated and speculative "wishful thinking" on the part of former editors. i.e. former editors *wish* that the technology would be successful, but are unfortunately dreadfully misinformed on basic maths and physics. the problem is: the lack of success of anyone to create a commercially successful version of this technology in over 100 years makes it very difficult to provide any kind of "wikipedia-acceptable" citations as to why there are no commercially successful versions of this technology.
the article therefore continues to mis-inform people rather badly. a quick check shows that the page has since been updated, but the core concerns remain as the page is completely lacking basic math and physics references, as well as having since been marked as requiring citations.
so there are several things that need to be resolved - bear in mind that i am *not* prepared to help publicly resolve this unless the people who carried out the intimidation are taken to task first:
- the people who carried out the intimidation and accusations need to
be reminded of the spirit of wikipedia to *trust* contributors rather than automatically assume that they have malicious intent
Sounds reasonable to look in to this, and maybe address it. who were they? It is rather naive to hope they are on the mailinglist reading this, and assume this will change anything regarding their bwhaviour
- the IP address of my HTTP proxy is to be removed. it's utterly
pointless to block IP addresses based on an *individual's* assessment, when there are things such as "Tor" and other truly anonymous proxies. anyone wishing to truly vandalise wikipedia could do so with extreme prejudice in an automated fashion, and they would certainly not use an HTTP proxy where a simple reverse-DNS lookup would quickly identify them.
Open proxies are generally blocked not to prevent a single specific user access, but to prevent vandals from hopping from proxy to proxy. This is not a theoretical concern, but has been amply proven in practice. Other open proxies and tor are also agressively blocked. In the case of tor we even have an entire extension to handle blocks. If your proxy isn't open, it shouldn't have been blocked as such - though at times the community has found that particularly problematic ranges from webhosts are blocked entirely because if the sheer number of proxies that have actively facilitated vandalism through them. Anyway, requesting unblock on-wiki should be the first step. While I understand in part why you aren't willing to divulge the blocked IP here, on the other we can't unblock unknown blocks.
once these things have been done then i am prepared to assist further in resolving the subtly misleading parts of the article. i am happy to provide the details *privately* to more senior individuals within the wikipedia foundation such that an investigation can be made.
The foundation can't really do anything about this really. Fixing this problem lies with the community.
my efforts to improve wikipedia's accuracy are genuine and sincere, but as a very low-traffic part-time editor of highly-technical corner-case articles i simply don't have time to go learning all the "rules": i'm just not interested, to be absolutely frank. i'm happy to work with people who are sincere and accommodating who truly welcome technical input.
l.
Parts of our community certainly enjoy enforcing "the rules" far more than is good for the project. This email seems to underline that yet again. But I'm unsure what you are hoping to accomplish with this email. The problem is fairly well known, and on the agenda for many already. Senior members of the foundation don't have any more standing on wiki than volunteers, and are often less active in wiki , and can't help you any more than normal community discussion can. Unblock requests are certainly to be made on-wiki, and if the proxy is open, not going to happen. I'm not sure what else there is to do for this specific case other than serve as a reminder that we still have a community that is not always communicating well and sometimes toxic. For specific action to be taken, the specific situation must be named. _______________________________________________
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Dear Luke,
One problem with you handling it this way is that we don't know whether the problem was a misunderstanding, a contentious subject or a difference of opinion about referencing. May I suggest that you either ask the editor who reverted you why they did so, or at least tell us the reason they gave in their edit summary.
What I've observed but not statistically quantified is a drift from tagging stuff with citation needed to simply just reverting unsourced additions; So it would be helpful if you could tell us whether you cited your sources when you made your edits. Apologies if your edits were sourced, but my experience is that editors who source their edits rarely encounter the sort of problem that you report.
That isn't to say I defend those who revert unsourced edits on sight, I actually think that the community is in a bit of a mess where a proportion of recent changes patrollers are working to a different standard than we are communicating to our editors as being required. But the solution is either to change the editing interface to prompt people for their source, or to clarify that uncontentious but unsourced edits should not be reverted on sight. Our current compromise whereby many patrollers impose a higher standard than we officially require is a guarantee of endless newbie biting
Regards
WSC
On 1 July 2013 17:58, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoekstra@gmail.com wrote:
On Jul 1, 2013 11:26 AM, "luke.leighton" luke.leighton@gmail.com wrote:
folks hi,
i am a long-time wikipedia user and long-time and low-volume editor, and a significant contributor to the strategic roadmap of wikipedia which occurred a few years ago. i returned to edit a page and found that the IP address of the HTTP proxy that i use had been blocked. i was reminded of an extreme intimidation incident which clearly violated the spirit of trusting people to contribute to wikipedia, so thought it best to alert you of this.
the editing last year was carried out - accidentally - anonymously and using my usual style of making several incremental edits in rapid succession so as not to lose track of the information being added. i was unpleasantly surprised to find that in the middle of the editing the *entire* set of edits had been reverted.
Deplorable. Has it been fixed yet?
i had encountered the
user who carried out the blanket reversion before (when logged in) and he's what one might call a "wiki nazi": very experienced at "the rules", and uses them to bullying effect rather than works *with* a less-experienced contributor, usually by doing total-revert in a highly disruptive manner.
things escalated and a number of idiots piled in, citing the anonymity as a means to "attack" wikipedia, whereas in fact it was purely accidental, but the bullying and the lack of trust shown was the reason why i chose to *remain* anonymous.
Using an account under a pseudonym makes you more anonymous than editing while logged out.
the article in question i refuse to name publicly because it will identify me instantly to the bullies from whom i still wish to remain anonymous.
While I understand the sentiment, it does make it virtually impossible to address what's been going on here.
it was a corner-case technical article full of technically inaccurate technically unsubstantiated and speculative "wishful thinking" on the part of former editors. i.e. former editors *wish* that the technology would be successful, but are unfortunately dreadfully misinformed on basic maths and physics. the problem is: the lack of success of anyone to create a commercially successful version of this technology in over 100 years makes it very difficult to provide any kind of "wikipedia-acceptable" citations as to why there are no commercially successful versions of this technology.
the article therefore continues to mis-inform people rather badly. a quick check shows that the page has since been updated, but the core concerns remain as the page is completely lacking basic math and physics references, as well as having since been marked as requiring citations.
so there are several things that need to be resolved - bear in mind that i am *not* prepared to help publicly resolve this unless the people who carried out the intimidation are taken to task first:
- the people who carried out the intimidation and accusations need to
be reminded of the spirit of wikipedia to *trust* contributors rather than automatically assume that they have malicious intent
Sounds reasonable to look in to this, and maybe address it. who were they? It is rather naive to hope they are on the mailinglist reading this, and assume this will change anything regarding their bwhaviour
- the IP address of my HTTP proxy is to be removed. it's utterly
pointless to block IP addresses based on an *individual's* assessment, when there are things such as "Tor" and other truly anonymous proxies. anyone wishing to truly vandalise wikipedia could do so with extreme prejudice in an automated fashion, and they would certainly not use an HTTP proxy where a simple reverse-DNS lookup would quickly identify them.
Open proxies are generally blocked not to prevent a single specific user access, but to prevent vandals from hopping from proxy to proxy. This is not a theoretical concern, but has been amply proven in practice. Other open proxies and tor are also agressively blocked. In the case of tor we even have an entire extension to handle blocks. If your proxy isn't open, it shouldn't have been blocked as such - though at times the community has found that particularly problematic ranges from webhosts are blocked entirely because if the sheer number of proxies that have actively facilitated vandalism through them. Anyway, requesting unblock on-wiki should be the first step. While I understand in part why you aren't willing to divulge the blocked IP here, on the other we can't unblock unknown blocks.
once these things have been done then i am prepared to assist further in resolving the subtly misleading parts of the article. i am happy to provide the details *privately* to more senior individuals within the wikipedia foundation such that an investigation can be made.
The foundation can't really do anything about this really. Fixing this problem lies with the community.
my efforts to improve wikipedia's accuracy are genuine and sincere, but as a very low-traffic part-time editor of highly-technical corner-case articles i simply don't have time to go learning all the "rules": i'm just not interested, to be absolutely frank. i'm happy to work with people who are sincere and accommodating who truly welcome technical input.
l.
Parts of our community certainly enjoy enforcing "the rules" far more than is good for the project. This email seems to underline that yet again. But I'm unsure what you are hoping to accomplish with this email. The problem is fairly well known, and on the agenda for many already. Senior members of the foundation don't have any more standing on wiki than volunteers, and are often less active in wiki , and can't help you any more than normal community discussion can. Unblock requests are certainly to be made on-wiki, and if the proxy is open, not going to happen. I'm not sure what else there is to do for this specific case other than serve as a reminder that we still have a community that is not always communicating well and sometimes toxic. For specific action to be taken, the specific situation must be named. _______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l