Sorry, I appear to have forgotten to send this reply to Anonymouse to the actual mailing list, and instead sent it to Anonymouse alone. I note that I haven't received a reply to it in the 16 hours since I sent it to him or her.
Yeah, it's not like it's the biggest holiday weekend of the summer or anything.
Wait. It's the 4th of July weekend? WHOOPS!
First off, who is Marmot? Who is Kurita77? I don't know. I'm the list administrator; I make sure it is used appropriately. I'm not here to make judgments about the actions of people on Wikipedia; I'm here to facilitate meaningful and constructive discussion.
Marmot is a user wrongfully banned from Wikipedia for the "crime" of dissenting and pointing out when Admins were abusing their powers.
Kurita77 I know you knew about; he was a recent new user who came to this list to ask why someone had PERMANENTLY BLOCKED his account from Wikipedia, and instead of treating him respectfully the Admins around here treated him like complete crap, made fun of him, sent him nasty emails laced with racial slurs, and sat around slapping each other on the back congratulating themselves for driving him into enough anger that he started swearing, at which point the admins on THIS LIST used that as an excuse to block him (oops, sorry, "moderating" him which means you'll just let all his emails sit and expire without even bothering to read them) for getting upset at wrongfully being blocked.
You were incredibly rude. As a result, you were moderated, but not banned. You are still free to send emails to the list, and, like I said, if they are civil then they will fairly quickly reach the list.
Let's test that shall we? Hmm?
It's not what you say that's important to me, it's how you say it.
We'll see.
You claim that your alleged personal attacks were the truth. So you're saying it's the absolute truth that one Wikipedian is a fat hag who constantly fellates another Wikipedian? I'm sorry, but that is so out of line that I do not accept any arguments of censorship or freedom of speech or anything like that as persuasive. If you have a point to make, it is more than possible to make it without personally attacking people in that manner.
If you think those were over the line, fine. I stand by my categorization of Ambi as being Wikipedia's version of the Red Queen. Her constant agitation for harsher and harsher punishments by ArbCom, combined with her absolute refusal to show ANY effort to communicate with the users in question, is the equivalent of the Queen sitting around screaming "Orf Wiv 'Is 'Ead" at anything that got near her.
In general, the Ambi/Gerard theory of Wikipedia has sucked. Instead of a Wikipedia based on encouraging civil discourse and where temporary blocks are for the purpose of encouraging users to behave within policy (and NEVER supposed to be punitive) we have admins like Bauder, Gerard, Ambi, Sidaway, and others I can name running around like the Wikipedian Inquisition.
They make up new policy as they go, they enforce things that aren't in policy, they REFUSE to enforce policy against each other or against their "favorite" users.
This needs to stop. But anytime it gets brought up, they instantly go off the deep end looking for any reason, no matter how minor, to block accounts and attack those who are calling their behavior into question.
As for your worries of people hunting you down and blocking you on Wikipedia for what is said here, you shouldn't worry about that. As far as I am concerned, although WikiEN-l is expressly *about* Wikipedia, it is entirely separate *from* Wikipedia, and anything which goes on one should not have a bearing on the user's participation in the other.
Unfortunately, your IDEAL of how they should act and the REALITY of how they act are two completely different things.
The fact remains that if they knew my Wikipedia account name, they wouldn't hesitate for a nanosecond to slap a block on it.
In this way, a user who gets blocked on Wikipedia proper is not automatically banned from the Mailing List, and vice-versa.
No, but they quickly get ignored or derided for daring to come here for redress of the regular abuses of power we see from Wikipedian admins.
Rather than this place being where new users who have been bitten by overzealous, power-hungry admins can come to get redress it's become a place where the users come so that the rest of the admins can have a good laugh at their expense.
Having said that, the fact that the mailing list is independent means that in *extreme* cases action must be taken in order to stop spam, abuse or inane repetition. In my view, yours is the second most extreme case I have seen in the last year of being the administrator of this mailing list. However, since that last case I have taken a more liberal approach and instead moderated you instead of banning you from subscribing to the mailing list outright. This is because I see considerable value in what you say, and want you to help thresh out the discussion, just not without abusively kicking other people in the guts in the process.
Right. Like I said, we'll see if this goes through or not.
So if you would please get over the accusations of thuggery and censorship on my part, and back on topic in a civil manner, hopefully we can actually get somewhere and maybe even lift the veil of moderation.
I'm giving you a chance to behave in good faith here. We'll see what happens. So far I have four cases of abuse by Wikipedia admins, and ZERO indication that they - especially as 90% of your list adminship are also Wikipedia admins - are inclined to act in good faith.
A. Nony Mouse
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Hi. I see that what looks like an identical version of this email is waiting in the moderation queue, however I assume from the fact that this email is through onto the mailing list that you don't want it accepted to the list.
Yeah, it's not like it's the biggest holiday weekend of the summer or anything.
Wait. It's the 4th of July weekend? WHOOPS!
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that I am not performing my job properly because I'm relaxing on a long weekend? I'm Australian, and don't celebrate the 4th of July. I'm actually in the middle of helping out at a national conference, so I apologise if my replies or administrator actions are sparse. The other four mailing list administrators appear to have been taking up the slack while I've been busy.
Marmot is a user wrongfully banned from Wikipedia for the "crime" of dissenting and pointing out when Admins were abusing their powers.
Kurita77 I know you knew about; he was a recent new user who came to this list to ask why someone had PERMANENTLY BLOCKED his account from Wikipedia, and instead of treating him respectfully the Admins around here treated him like complete crap, made fun of him, sent him nasty emails laced with racial slurs, and sat around slapping each other on the back congratulating themselves for driving him into enough anger that he started swearing, at which point the admins on THIS LIST used that as an excuse to block him (oops, sorry, "moderating" him which means you'll just let all his emails sit and expire without even bothering to read them) for getting upset at wrongfully being blocked.
I've just had a look over my archives of WikIEN-l. I might have been told in passing about Kurita77 spamming the mailing list (perhaps in the IRC channel?) but the threads in WikiEN-l were unread by me (according to Gmail, anyway). I don't actively read WikiEN-l all the time, and often require my attention to be brought to a situation in order to take any sort of action. As it stands, it appears from that thread that Kurita77 was placed on moderation by Angela, who is not a WikiEN-l mailing list administrator. She is a member of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees.
As for Marmot, I will have a look at the user's history on Wikipedia. I presume that is the person's username on Wikipedia.
There are 532 members of the WikiEN-l mailing list (including your four temporary addresses). Accusations of misconduct about refusing to respond to Kurita77's complaints pretty much accuses all 532 of them (or at least the Wikipedia adminstrators among them) of corruption of some form.
Let's test that shall we? Hmm?
Yes, your email was accepted. I note it was not me who approved this email either (I was asleep) however I would have done so as well.
If you think those were over the line, fine. I stand by my categorization of Ambi as being Wikipedia's version of the Red Queen. Her constant agitation for harsher and harsher punishments by ArbCom, combined with her absolute refusal to show ANY effort to communicate with the users in question, is the equivalent of the Queen sitting around screaming "Orf Wiv 'Is 'Ead" at anything that got near her.
I'm not sure who the "Red Queen" was. Is it something out of Alice in Wonderland? I can't remember. However, you are perfectly entitled to share your opinion (again, in a civil manner).
In general, the Ambi/Gerard theory of Wikipedia has sucked. Instead of a Wikipedia based on encouraging civil discourse and where temporary blocks are for the purpose of encouraging users to behave within policy (and NEVER supposed to be punitive) we have admins like Bauder, Gerard, Ambi, Sidaway, and others I can name running around like the Wikipedian Inquisition.
They make up new policy as they go, they enforce things that aren't in policy, they REFUSE to enforce policy against each other or against their "favorite" users.
This needs to stop. But anytime it gets brought up, they instantly go off the deep end looking for any reason, no matter how minor, to block accounts and attack those who are calling their behavior into question.
That's more like it. How do you recommend we fix the system? Constructive criticism is good.
Unfortunately, your IDEAL of how they should act and the REALITY of how they act are two completely different things.
The fact remains that if they knew my Wikipedia account name, they wouldn't hesitate for a nanosecond to slap a block on it.
I guess there are some who would be prepared to do that. But, in my opinion, there would be even more administrators who would object to such an action and would be prepared to reverse it. Maybe I should further clarify the role of the mailing list (as independent) on the mailing list information page. Any comments on this are of course more than welcome from the Wikipedia community.
No, but they quickly get ignored or derided for daring to come here for redress of the regular abuses of power we see from Wikipedian admins.
Rather than this place being where new users who have been bitten by overzealous, power-hungry admins can come to get redress it's become a place where the users come so that the rest of the admins can have a good laugh at their expense.
As I said above, there are many people on the mailing list (and obviously not all are Wikipedia administrators). Instead of having at least some of these people responding to these requests for redress, we get people unsubscribing from the mailing list, not reading it or actually complaining about the messages and requesting an end be put to them. So it may be failing as a place of redress for unwarranted blocks, but more as a result of the reaction of its subscribers as a whole. In some ways, the administrators have been simply responding to the list's subscriber base.
I'm giving you a chance to behave in good faith here. We'll see what happens. So far I have four cases of abuse by Wikipedia admins, and ZERO indication that they - especially as 90% of your list adminship are also Wikipedia admins - are inclined to act in good faith.
Actually 100% of our list adminship are also Wikipedia admins. I think I became list administrator for this mailing list maybe a week before I got made a Wikipedia admin.
I am prepared to unmoderate you on the *strict* undertaking that you be constructive and civil. Please do not make me regret doing this, as it would be a demonstration of bad faith on your part.
~Mark Ryan WikiEN-l mailing list administrator
Marmot is a user wrongfully banned from Wikipedia for the "crime" of dissenting and pointing out when Admins were abusing their powers.
User:MARMOT was originally blocked for sockpuppet abuse, particularly on a RFA. (He successfully fouled up Weyes' RFA and started impersonating admins and arbitrators on the revote.) It appears he acted such a dick that he's stayed blocked. This is not by decree, particularly not mine. If any of the 500-odd admins feel this block of MARMOT is unwarranted, they are free to unblock him. None of them have. This is either (a) massive corruption or (b) he really was *that much of a dick*. Of course, it could have been both.
- d.
From: fun@thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
Marmot is a user wrongfully banned from Wikipedia for the "crime" of dissenting and pointing out when Admins were abusing their powers.
User:MARMOT was originally blocked for sockpuppet abuse, particularly on a RFA. (He successfully fouled up Weyes' RFA and started impersonating admins and arbitrators on the revote.) It appears he acted such a dick that he's stayed blocked. This is not by decree, particularly not mine. If any of the 500-odd admins feel this block of MARMOT is unwarranted, they are free to unblock him. None of them have. This is either (a) massive corruption or (b) he really was *that much of a dick*. Of course, it could have been both.
Isn't there a saying "Absolute dicks corrupt absolutely"?
Jay.
There's room for me to make a comment about you here, but that would be a "personal attack" now wouldn't it?
I just love how the rules don't ever apply to admins.
A. Nony Mouse
Isn't there a saying "Absolute dicks corrupt absolutely"?
Jay.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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I should point out that I don't understand Jay's comment. I thought it was an attack directed at David Gerard, not A Nony Mouse.
~Mark Ryan
On 7/5/05, A. Nony Mouse temoforcomments4@hotmail.com wrote:
There's room for me to make a comment about you here, but that would be a "personal attack" now wouldn't it?
I just love how the rules don't ever apply to admins.
A. Nony Mouse
Isn't there a saying "Absolute dicks corrupt absolutely"?
Jay.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Mark Ryan (ultrablue@gmail.com) [050706 16:44]:
I should point out that I don't understand Jay's comment. I thought it was an attack directed at David Gerard, not A Nony Mouse.
And I thought it was wordplay, not an attack on me ...
- d.
From: fun@thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
Mark Ryan (ultrablue@gmail.com) [050706 16:44]:
I should point out that I don't understand Jay's comment. I thought it was an attack directed at David Gerard, not A Nony Mouse.
And I thought it was wordplay, not an attack on me ...
David was right, it was merely wordplay.
Jay.
On 7/3/05, A. Nony Mouse
Kurita77 I know you knew about; he was a recent new user who came to this list to ask why someone had PERMANENTLY BLOCKED his account from Wikipedia, and instead of treating him respectfully the Admins around here treated him like complete crap,
I'm writing not for your benefit, but for the benefit of those who might stumble onto this thread in the future and not know the whole story.
It has been pointed out several times that Kurita77 used the same IP as enviroknott. The IP does not appear to be a proxy. Enviroknott is blocked from wikipedia for being an abusive sockpuppetting troll. Furthermore Kurita77 initial edits were on the same subjects and enviroknott, and even came out in support of enviroknott. Finally, this is the third user to magically appear, turn out to be from the same IP as enviroknott.
With these facts in mind, no rational person would believe that Kurita77 was anyone but enviroknott. That you choose to ignore this and continue to cite events related to this user in the furtherance of your complaints shows a remarkable lack of reason on your part. You have posted dozens of angry, drama inducing posts on this and related matters. If someone were actually being wronged this would be forgivable... But anyone who understands the issues can see that this is clearly not the case. As a result you are, whether or not you intend to, trolling this list.
I understand that you believe the community is mishandling the matter, but you aren't the one that is going to be able to fix it. I'm sorry, because of your behavior we can not accept your help.
At this point, I think it is fairly clear that you have been asked to leave. In case it is not, I'll do it again: Nony, your participation here is not productive for anyone. Please leave.
I'd encourage others to cite the url to this message in the archives when replying in a critical way to Nony in the future. I don't think it ethical to be rude to scare away users, as the users who need to go enjoy the dispute... However I also feel no sorrow for those who have been politely asked to leave and who receive some harsh words when they refuse to cooperate. Quite frankly, we've assumed good faith and I think we should continue to assume good faith, but I will not complain about those who have run out of good faith for you.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
Gregory Maxwell wrote: <snip>
I'd encourage others to cite the url to this message in the archives when replying in a critical way to Nony in the future.
For reference, the URL is http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2005-July/025786.html
- -- Alphax OpenPGP key: 0xF874C613 - http://tinyurl.com/cc9up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis
Kurita77 actually sent emails from MANY IP addresses in his block.
As far as I know, Enviroknot only ever posted from one IP address.
Furthermore, Enviroknot stated several times that he was against swearing and would not do it - a marked contrast not only from Kurita77 but also from the users that (Gerard claimed and I still don't believe) he was accused of being a sockpuppet of, KaintheScion/ElKabong.
I checked the record. Enviroknot's edits and emails to this list do not contain a single swear word, anywhere.
The same can't be said for Kurita77 or KaintheScion/ElKabong.
Kurita77, on his initial 25 edits, made only one set that were on the same subject as Enviroknot. But we have policy on Wikipedia about that. Merely editing on the same subject or sharing similar opinions is NOT an indication of sockpuppetry.
Kurita77 was an example of a bunch of Inquisitionists running around needing someone else to persecute, and biting the newbies. There was no good faith involved in dealing with him.
"No Rational Person" would choose to believe that Kurita77 was the same as Enviroknot? I COMPLETELY dispute that statement. There is plenty of evidence to indicate that Kurita77 is NOT the same person as Enviroknot.
Instead, the Kurita77 case has proven a few things about the bad faith inherent in the behavior of editors/admins like YOU:
1 - You believe that no editor is smart enough to read the rules and tutorials before posting, and that (therefore) any editor who comes in and doesn't sound like a l33t skr1pt k1dd13z poster is guilty of being a sockpuppet. This CANNOT be allowed to be the case. We want editors to come in and meet high standards as soon as possible, which is why we put those tutorials up and made the rules available for them to read.
We should not bite the newbies for actually paying attention.
2 - You believe that quoting someone (which is as simple as copying and pasting their edit) is evidence of sockpuppetry. Again, this CANNOT be allowed to be the case.
The case of Kurita77's quote - which you call "complete support" - is YOU misrepresenting the event, nothing more. His actual behavior was to take a small paragraph from out between the bickering between Zeno of Elea and BrandonYusufToropov/Anonymous Editor, because it held a valuable suggestion - a suggestion that BrandonYusufToropov even agreed was a good one, though the suggestion itself stirred up the usual hornets' nest of Islamic detractors and defenders pushing alternate readings of the Koran.
If saying "hey, this guy had a good suggestion" is evidence of sockpuppetry, then that is COMPLETELY wrong.
Let me put it bluntly. Maybe you'll get it then.
You Are Operating in Bad Faith, Maxwell. You Are Ignoring The Evidence. You Are Completely In The Wrong.
A. Nony Mouse
It has been pointed out several times that Kurita77 used the same IP as enviroknott. The IP does not appear to be a proxy. Enviroknott is blocked from wikipedia for being an abusive sockpuppetting troll. Furthermore Kurita77 initial edits were on the same subjects and enviroknott, and even came out in support of enviroknott. Finally, this is the third user to magically appear, turn out to be from the same IP as enviroknott.
With these facts in mind, no rational person would believe that Kurita77 was anyone but enviroknott. That you choose to ignore this and continue to cite events related to this user in the furtherance of your complaints shows a remarkable lack of reason on your part. You have posted dozens of angry, drama inducing posts on this and related matters. If someone were actually being wronged this would be forgivable... But anyone who understands the issues can see that this is clearly not the case. As a result you are, whether or not you intend to, trolling this list.
I understand that you believe the community is mishandling the matter, but you aren't the one that is going to be able to fix it. I'm sorry, because of your behavior we can not accept your help.
At this point, I think it is fairly clear that you have been asked to leave. In case it is not, I'll do it again: Nony, your participation here is not productive for anyone. Please leave.
I'd encourage others to cite the url to this message in the archives when replying in a critical way to Nony in the future. I don't think it ethical to be rude to scare away users, as the users who need to go enjoy the dispute... However I also feel no sorrow for those who have been politely asked to leave and who receive some harsh words when they refuse to cooperate. Quite frankly, we've assumed good faith and I think we should continue to assume good faith, but I will not complain about those who have run out of good faith for you. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Can we get rid of this Mouse guy? Hes bugging me. On a more serious note, there is plenty of evidence that he is Enviroknot, enough to be conclusive that he is - You are making excuses with completely minor issues - So what if Enviroknot, under his normal alias didn't swear in his e-mails? If I create another account, and start swearing, does that mean that i'm not the person on the other account?
You can only assume so much good faith. Thats been assumed already for Enviroknot. Kurita77 = Enviroknot. Unlucky for you, I guess. ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Nony Mouse" temoforcomments4@hotmail.com To: gmaxwell@gmail.com; wikien-l@wikipedia.org Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power
Kurita77 actually sent emails from MANY IP addresses in his block.
As far as I know, Enviroknot only ever posted from one IP address.
Furthermore, Enviroknot stated several times that he was against swearing and would not do it - a marked contrast not only from Kurita77 but also
from
the users that (Gerard claimed and I still don't believe) he was accused
of
being a sockpuppet of, KaintheScion/ElKabong.
I checked the record. Enviroknot's edits and emails to this list do not contain a single swear word, anywhere.
The same can't be said for Kurita77 or KaintheScion/ElKabong.
Kurita77, on his initial 25 edits, made only one set that were on the same subject as Enviroknot. But we have policy on Wikipedia about that. Merely editing on the same subject or sharing similar opinions is NOT an
indication
of sockpuppetry.
Kurita77 was an example of a bunch of Inquisitionists running around
needing
someone else to persecute, and biting the newbies. There was no good faith involved in dealing with him.
"No Rational Person" would choose to believe that Kurita77 was the same as Enviroknot? I COMPLETELY dispute that statement. There is plenty of
evidence
to indicate that Kurita77 is NOT the same person as Enviroknot.
Instead, the Kurita77 case has proven a few things about the bad faith inherent in the behavior of editors/admins like YOU:
1 - You believe that no editor is smart enough to read the rules and tutorials before posting, and that (therefore) any editor who comes in and doesn't sound like a l33t skr1pt k1dd13z poster is guilty of being a sockpuppet. This CANNOT be allowed to be the case. We want editors to
come
in and meet high standards as soon as possible, which is why we put those tutorials up and made the rules available for them to read.
We should not bite the newbies for actually paying attention.
2 - You believe that quoting someone (which is as simple as copying and pasting their edit) is evidence of sockpuppetry. Again, this CANNOT be allowed to be the case.
The case of Kurita77's quote - which you call "complete support" - is YOU misrepresenting the event, nothing more. His actual behavior was to take a small paragraph from out between the bickering between Zeno of Elea and BrandonYusufToropov/Anonymous Editor, because it held a valuable
suggestion
- a suggestion that BrandonYusufToropov even agreed was a good one, though
the suggestion itself stirred up the usual hornets' nest of Islamic detractors and defenders pushing alternate readings of the Koran.
If saying "hey, this guy had a good suggestion" is evidence of
sockpuppetry,
then that is COMPLETELY wrong.
Let me put it bluntly. Maybe you'll get it then.
You Are Operating in Bad Faith, Maxwell. You Are Ignoring The Evidence. You Are Completely In The Wrong.
A. Nony Mouse
It has been pointed out several times that Kurita77 used the same IP as enviroknott. The IP does not appear to be a proxy. Enviroknott is blocked from wikipedia for being an abusive sockpuppetting troll. Furthermore Kurita77 initial edits were on the same subjects and enviroknott, and even came out in support of enviroknott. Finally, this is the third user to magically appear, turn out to be from the same IP as enviroknott.
With these facts in mind, no rational person would believe that Kurita77 was anyone but enviroknott. That you choose to ignore this and continue to cite events related to this user in the furtherance of your complaints shows a remarkable lack of reason on your part. You have posted dozens of angry, drama inducing posts on this and related matters. If someone were actually being wronged this would be forgivable... But anyone who understands the issues can see that this is clearly not the case. As a result you are, whether or not you intend to, trolling this list.
I understand that you believe the community is mishandling the matter, but you aren't the one that is going to be able to fix it. I'm sorry, because of your behavior we can not accept your help.
At this point, I think it is fairly clear that you have been asked to leave. In case it is not, I'll do it again: Nony, your participation here is not productive for anyone. Please leave.
I'd encourage others to cite the url to this message in the archives when replying in a critical way to Nony in the future. I don't think it ethical to be rude to scare away users, as the users who need to go enjoy the dispute... However I also feel no sorrow for those who have been politely asked to leave and who receive some harsh words when they refuse to cooperate. Quite frankly, we've assumed good faith and I think we should continue to assume good faith, but I will not complain about those who have run out of good faith for you. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Create a cute, funny or sexy Meego - click for more info! http://meegos.msn.ie
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Can we get rid of this Mouse guy? Hes bugging me.
Gee. That looks like a personal attack to me. I thought those were disallowed?
On a more serious note, there is plenty of evidence that he is Enviroknot, enough to be conclusive that he is - You are making excuses with completely minor issues - So what if Enviroknot, under his normal alias didn't swear in his e-mails? If I create another account, and start swearing, does that mean that i'm not the person on the other account?
IF they were the same person, sooner or later Enviroknot would have slipped up and started swearing. Enviroknot was around for MONTHS and in all that time, not one swear.
I'm not saying it's not possible, but people don't just switch behavior on and off like that. Enviroknot ought to have slipped up and let loose with a swear here and there if he were really the freely-swearing KaintheScion/ElKabong. Kurita77 took a bit of prodding from the members of this list who can't be bothered to act in good faith, but it didn't take long.
Sorry, no. If they were the same person, we would have seen at least a couple of slipups from Enviroknot. A couple of naughty words. We didn't.
You can only assume so much good faith. Thats been assumed already for Enviroknot. Kurita77 = Enviroknot. Unlucky for you, I guess.
No, that's not the case. I still do not believe Kurita77 is Enviroknot, and once again you're ignoring the evidence.
Prove to me that Kurita77 is Enviroknot. Bring forth some REAL evidence, not this pathetic garbage that you've been putting forward.
If Kurita77 was Enviroknot, how did he slip into swearing so quickly?
If Enviroknot was KaintheScion/ElKabong, why did we never see Enviroknot swear ONCE?
If Kurita77 was Enviroknot, WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE? The IP addresses matched, BRIEFLY, and then don't any more. All this proves is that they live in a nearby geographical area. The edits don't match up, and you can't claim that they do and still be within bounds of Wikipedia policy.
All I've seen out of this case is a bunch of newbie-biting and then bad-faith admins scrambling to cover it up rather than admit they were wrong.
A. Nony Mouse
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I'm not saying it's not possible, but people don't just switch behavior on and off like that. Enviroknot ought to have slipped up and let loose with
a
swear here and there if he were really the freely-swearing KaintheScion/ElKabong.
People do switch behaviour like that. Its called putting on an act, making it look like you are different people. Your only 'evidence' is that Enviroknot didn't swear, and Kurita77 did. Thats really not even a case to go on.
The IP addresses matched, BRIEFLY, and then don't any more.
The chances are he now fakes the IP, then. Whether they matched briefly or not, they still matched. With all the other evidence, it makes your case for it being two people impossible. ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Nony Mouse" temoforcomments4@hotmail.com To: wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 7:31 PM Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] SHOWCASING Abuses of Admin Power
Can we get rid of this Mouse guy? Hes bugging me.
Gee. That looks like a personal attack to me. I thought those were disallowed?
On a more serious note, there is plenty of evidence that he is Enviroknot, enough to be
conclusive
that he is - You are making excuses with completely minor issues - So
what
if Enviroknot, under his normal alias didn't swear in his e-mails? If I create another account, and start swearing, does that mean that i'm not
the
person on the other account?
IF they were the same person, sooner or later Enviroknot would have
slipped
up and started swearing. Enviroknot was around for MONTHS and in all that time, not one swear.
I'm not saying it's not possible, but people don't just switch behavior on and off like that. Enviroknot ought to have slipped up and let loose with
a
swear here and there if he were really the freely-swearing KaintheScion/ElKabong. Kurita77 took a bit of prodding from the members of this list who can't be bothered to act in good faith, but it didn't take long.
Sorry, no. If they were the same person, we would have seen at least a couple of slipups from Enviroknot. A couple of naughty words. We didn't.
You can only assume so much good faith. Thats been assumed already for Enviroknot. Kurita77 = Enviroknot. Unlucky for you, I guess.
No, that's not the case. I still do not believe Kurita77 is Enviroknot,
and
once again you're ignoring the evidence.
Prove to me that Kurita77 is Enviroknot. Bring forth some REAL evidence,
not
this pathetic garbage that you've been putting forward.
If Kurita77 was Enviroknot, how did he slip into swearing so quickly?
If Enviroknot was KaintheScion/ElKabong, why did we never see Enviroknot swear ONCE?
If Kurita77 was Enviroknot, WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE? The IP addresses
matched,
BRIEFLY, and then don't any more. All this proves is that they live in a nearby geographical area. The edits don't match up, and you can't claim
that
they do and still be within bounds of Wikipedia policy.
All I've seen out of this case is a bunch of newbie-biting and then bad-faith admins scrambling to cover it up rather than admit they were wrong.
A. Nony Mouse
Create a cute, funny or sexy Meego - click for more info! http://meegos.msn.ie
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/5/05, A. Nony Mouse temoforcomments4@hotmail.com wrote:
Can we get rid of this Mouse guy? Hes bugging me.
Gee. That looks like a personal attack to me. I thought those were disallowed?
They are. Do play nicely, children. We don't want to go hurting anyone's feelings with these insults.
~Mark Ryan