On 26 Nov 2008, at 19:29, phoebe ayers wrote:
Most probably, most users who type in "Ireland" are looking for the article about the Republic of Ireland. However, we can't escape the fact that the term Ireland is ambiguous. Some users would be unaware that six of the 32 Irish counties are not currently part of the Republic.
I would actually argue that a reader who doesn't know anything about Ireland (picture a schoolchild in the US doing a project for St. Patrick's day)
I don't think Ireland is all that obscure.
Well, no, you wouldn't, nor would I. But is it possible that not every English-speaker in the world is quite so well informed on the subject? Anybody who can name all 32 counties, or even all four provinces, is probably a poor judge of the matter.
Disambiguation pages are to make the ambiguous unambiguous. So is Ireland ambiguous? I reckon the answer, as so often, would be that it depends. If you're looking for stuff on natural sciences, chances are you want the island. The current situation suits just fine. Same for history. Current events? The current situation is icky. Culture? High culture, ok. Pop culture, probably not. Biographies? Dead people handily outnumber the living, so the present setup should be good, although in practice it may not be until other groups are as well represented as TDs, hurlers and gaelic footballers.
In my humble opinion, this is just more old bollocks of the kind we have more than enough of on topics like Macedonia. If it's not what to call the political entity formerly known as the Free State, it's British Isles versus Britain and Ireland, or some nonsense with the Troubles or the Famine. Ireland an honorary Eastern European subject? It makes sense.
Angus McLellan
On 26 Nov 2008, at 23:09, Angus McLellan wrote:
Disambiguation pages are to make the ambiguous unambiguous. So is Ireland ambiguous? I reckon the answer, as so often, would be that it depends.
That would signify ambiguity.
If you're looking for stuff on natural sciences, chances are you want the island. The current situation suits just fine. Same for history. Current events? The current situation is icky. Culture? High culture, ok. Pop culture, probably not. Biographies? Dead people handily outnumber the living, so the present setup should be good, although in practice it may not be until other groups are as well represented as TDs, hurlers and gaelic footballers.
So... it's ambiguous.
In my humble opinion, this is just more old bollocks of the kind we have more than enough of on topics like Macedonia.
Well, since I'm not trying to edit Macedonia, I don't care. But I am interested in Ireland, and we're not getting anywhere improving any articles because of this nomenclature dispute.
If it's not what to call the political entity formerly known as the Free State, it's British Isles versus Britain and Ireland, or some nonsense with the Troubles or the Famine. Ireland an honorary Eastern European subject?
That's not very helpful. That's just effing glib. Thanks. :-(
It makes sense.
I came here looking for help to end this nightmare. We've got a decent proposal for sorting out the ambiguity. Right now, the nay-sayers are doing a good job drumming up "Oppose" votes. Mostly there is no argument. It's fucking tribalism and I can't stand it. They might "win" because they are organized. It won't solve anything and we'll be back here again.
Please, folks, HELP. Look at the requests to move the two pages and comment. That's the least you can do.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com