To one & all,
I have been participating in this Mailing List for a relatively short time, but in that time I have found us to be a somewhat eclectic- & diverse-thinking group. This turns me on. (OK, I'm easy :-) )
I realize this List is restricted to subjects directly related to all things Wikipedia. What would you think, and how would you feel about creating a similar Wikipedia-community-based Mailing List in which broader sociocultural issues are discussed?
Would you participate in such a group?
Your thoughts?
Marc Riddell
I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.
On 07/02/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
To one & all,
I have been participating in this Mailing List for a relatively short time, but in that time I have found us to be a somewhat eclectic- & diverse-thinking group. This turns me on. (OK, I'm easy :-) )
I realize this List is restricted to subjects directly related to all things Wikipedia. What would you think, and how would you feel about creating a similar Wikipedia-community-based Mailing List in which broader sociocultural issues are discussed?
Would you participate in such a group?
Your thoughts?
Marc Riddell
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 2/7/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
on 2/6/07 7:18 PM, NSLE (Wikipedia) at nsle.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.
I don't know what #wikipedia is.
Marc
IRC channel at:
irc://chat.freenode.net:8001/wikipedia
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IRC
Of the various IRC channels used by wikipedians it is the one most likely to go off topic.
on 2/6/07 7:57 PM, geni at geniice@gmail.com wrote:
IRC channel at:
irc://chat.freenode.net:8001/wikipedia
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IRC
Of the various IRC channels used by wikipedians it is the one most likely to go off topic.
Thank you. I honestly didn't know this existed - now I do.
Thanks again,
Marc
on 2/6/07 7:57 PM, geni at geniice@gmail.com wrote:
IRC channel at:
irc://chat.freenode.net:8001/wikipedia
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IRC
Of the various IRC channels used by wikipedians it is the one most likely to go off topic.
I just took a good look at this; while it does stray into issues other than WP, it doesn't have the focus I'm speaking of.
I'm talking about an actual Mailing List, set up like this one, where the primary purpose & focus is discussing sociocultural issues.
Marc Riddell
On 2/6/07, NSLE (Wikipedia) nsle.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.
IRC is a cesspool - you should include a warning to people before sending them that way.
On 07/02/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
To one & all,
I have been participating in this Mailing List for a relatively short time, but in that time I have found us to be a somewhat eclectic- & diverse-thinking group. This turns me on. (OK, I'm easy :-) )
I realize this List is restricted to subjects directly related to all things Wikipedia. What would you think, and how would you feel about creating a similar Wikipedia-community-based Mailing List in which broader sociocultural issues are discussed?
Would you participate in such a group?
Your thoughts?
Marc Riddell
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 2/6/07, Guettarda guettarda@gmail.com wrote:
On 2/6/07, NSLE (Wikipedia) nsle.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.
IRC is a cesspool - you should include a warning to people before sending them that way.
I second that. Last time I was in #wikipedia, I actually got chastised for trying to draw attention to something actually relevant to Wikipedia.
Anyhow, I would be potentially interested in the proposed list.
-Sage
To be honest, I wouldn't be interested. I get enough email as it is and social/cultural discussions are too likely to turn into giant flamewars. There's no point in such discussion as you're very unlikely to actually convince someone to change their views.
Mgm
On 2/7/07, Sage Ross ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
On 2/6/07, Guettarda guettarda@gmail.com wrote:
On 2/6/07, NSLE (Wikipedia) nsle.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.
IRC is a cesspool - you should include a warning to people before
sending
them that way.
I second that. Last time I was in #wikipedia, I actually got chastised for trying to draw attention to something actually relevant to Wikipedia.
Anyhow, I would be potentially interested in the proposed list.
-Sage
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
on 2/7/07 4:35 AM, MacGyverMagic/Mgm at macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
social/cultural discussions are too likely to turn into giant flamewars.
They don't have to deteriorate into that; either the flamers control it or the serious participants do - you can decide.
There's no point in such discussion as you're very unlikely to actually convince someone to change their views.
How about participating to learn - not to convince.
Marc Riddell
If I want to learn about other people's views I can read Wikipedia. It would have a similar effect and save a lot of inbox space.
Mgm
On 2/7/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
on 2/7/07 4:35 AM, MacGyverMagic/Mgm at macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
social/cultural discussions are too likely to turn into giant flamewars.
They don't have to deteriorate into that; either the flamers control it or the serious participants do - you can decide.
There's no point in such discussion as you're very unlikely to actually convince someone to change their views.
How about participating to learn - not to convince.
Marc Riddell
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Guettarda wrote:
On 2/6/07, NSLE (Wikipedia) wrote:
I think #wikipedia does that job well enough.
IRC is a cesspool - you should include a warning to people before sending them that way.
Good reason to avoid it! The problem with chat rooms is that they are geared toward people with short attention spans who think is one-line bites. The kind of thoughtful discussion that Marc envisions does not fit in that kind of environment. In some cases I prefer to wait a day or two to think about my answer before replying.
Ec
On 2/8/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Good reason to avoid it! The problem with chat rooms is that they are geared toward people with short attention spans who think is one-line bites. The kind of thoughtful discussion that Marc envisions does not fit in that kind of environment. In some cases I prefer to wait a day or two to think about my answer before replying.
In any case, IRC and email lists are not compatible choices. IRC doesn't suit me. Email doesn't suit others. We can't just send those that want to discuss some topic to IRC, unless something about the medium itself is particularly relevant.
But seriously, I am all for splitting this list. A single list that deals with issues as diverse as "Why did I get blocked", "Check out this cool article", "Interesting report about Wikipedia", and "Where should Wikipedia go in the next 5 years" just doesn't really gel.
I'd like a seriously moderated list where only serious discussion is tolerated. Without depriving the freshly blocked of a forum to rant in.
Steve
on 2/8/07 5:46 AM, Ray Saintonge at saintonge@telus.net wrote:
The problem with chat rooms is that they are geared toward people with short attention spans who think is one-line bites. The kind of thoughtful discussion that Marc envisions does not fit in that kind of environment. In some cases I prefer to wait a day or two to think about my answer before replying.
Exactly!
I'd like to make my thoughts about my proposal as clear as I can.
The sociocultural issues that would be discussed in this new Mailing List are ones that exist in the world at large, not within the Wikipedia Community.
I haven't been participating in the WikiEN-L Mailing List all that long, but in the time that I have I've found the participants to be an interesting-, diverse- and eclectic-sounding group. Often times in the posts that I read a person will touch upon, or brush up against, an issue that has larger-world social or cultural connections, but back off very quickly saying the list isn't for that. And, they are right, it isn't. That's when it occurred to me: why not have a Mailing List where persons could express their feelings and beliefs about such larger social and cultural issues; compare and contrast their own beliefs and ideas with others; and perhaps learn something in the process. It would provide a forum to, perhaps most importantly, question those social and cultural ³absolutes² we take as gospel because ³that¹s the way it is², or (worse) that¹s the way it¹s always been².
Chat room style formats very often consist of knee-jerk responses that represent beliefs and opinions learned strictly from other persons; rather than ones we ourselves have formulated after taking that input, chewing on it for a while, and coming up with ones that are truly our own.
I admit this could, at times, attract persons who want just to argue for its own sake; push their own beliefs and agendas; and could (more likely, probably would) at times, turn into an unproductive shouting match. If these types of situations did occur, it would also give the other, more disciplined participants an opportunity to learn how to control such situations.
I believe if the purpose and goal of the List is set to learn rather than to merely convince, something positive could come of it.
Marc Riddell
On 2/7/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
I realize this List is restricted to subjects directly related to all things Wikipedia. What would you think, and how would you feel about creating a similar Wikipedia-community-based Mailing List in which broader sociocultural issues are discussed?
Would you participate in such a group?
Your thoughts?
I would be pleased if some of the broader sociocultural issues (if you mean flames about Parker Peter etc) were discussed somewhere else. This list gets too much traffic as it is.
Steve
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 2/7/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
I realize this List is restricted to subjects directly related to all things Wikipedia. What would you think, and how would you feel about creating a similar Wikipedia-community-based Mailing List in which broader sociocultural issues are discussed?
Would you participate in such a group?
Your thoughts?
I would be pleased if some of the broader sociocultural issues (if you mean flames about Parker Peter etc) were discussed somewhere else. This list gets too much traffic as it is.
Flames about Parker Peter are a narrow sociocultural issue not a broad one.
Ec
On 08/02/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Steve Bennett wrote:
I would be pleased if some of the broader sociocultural issues (if you mean flames about ***** etc) were discussed somewhere else. This list gets too much traffic as it is.
Flames about ***** are a narrow sociocultural issue not a broad one.
Stop it please, all!
- d.
David Gerard wrote:
On 08/02/07, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Steve Bennett wrote:
I would be pleased if some of the broader sociocultural issues (if you mean flames about ***** etc) were discussed somewhere else. This list gets too much traffic as it is.
Flames about ***** are a narrow sociocultural issue not a broad one.
Stop it please, all!
Stop what? It is clear that Marc did not intend flames with his proposal; Steve merely established a useful demarcation.
Ec