FYI
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org Date: 2008/5/29 Subject: [Commons-l] On upload forms To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List commons-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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For a long time we've had to suffer with an image upload form which was pretty bare-bones, while attempting to shoehorn more smarts into it through templates and JavaScript hacks.
Well, I think it's about time we prioritize really doing this thing right. Commons, and MediaWiki generally, needs an upload form which:
a) Works sensibly
b) Looks good
c) Allows you to upload the file, extract metadata, compare duplicates, make sure it's sensibly named, and *then* commit it into the system.
d) Handles batch uploads with a minimum of fuss (or at least, as minimally fussy as one can get with HTML file upload forms :)
Note that this isn't going to be done by tacking JavaScript and templates onto the existing form; this is going to be a real effort to redesign it from scratch into something that handles today's actual needs.
I'd appreciate hearing from people interested in helping out in the following capacities:
* Designing user interface mockups * Helping code it up in MediaWiki * Testing the new form under development * Providing constructive criticism as we work
This effort will probably take from a few weeks to a few months to get to the point where it's really live; we may even try experiments like having the old and new forms available side-by-side on the live site so people really have a chance to bang at it in real usage without forcing an in-flux test system on everyone.
- -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
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That's a really good idea. The current form isn't that easily usably, especially by newbies. It's also a bit ugly...
--Maxim
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 3:52 PM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
FYI
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org Date: 2008/5/29 Subject: [Commons-l] On upload forms To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List commons-l@lists.wikimedia.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
For a long time we've had to suffer with an image upload form which was pretty bare-bones, while attempting to shoehorn more smarts into it through templates and JavaScript hacks.
Well, I think it's about time we prioritize really doing this thing right. Commons, and MediaWiki generally, needs an upload form which:
a) Works sensibly
b) Looks good
c) Allows you to upload the file, extract metadata, compare duplicates, make sure it's sensibly named, and *then* commit it into the system.
d) Handles batch uploads with a minimum of fuss (or at least, as minimally fussy as one can get with HTML file upload forms :)
Note that this isn't going to be done by tacking JavaScript and templates onto the existing form; this is going to be a real effort to redesign it from scratch into something that handles today's actual needs.
I'd appreciate hearing from people interested in helping out in the following capacities:
- Designing user interface mockups
- Helping code it up in MediaWiki
- Testing the new form under development
- Providing constructive criticism as we work
This effort will probably take from a few weeks to a few months to get to the point where it's really live; we may even try experiments like having the old and new forms available side-by-side on the live site so people really have a chance to bang at it in real usage without forcing an in-flux test system on everyone.
- -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
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A good thing to implement along the line is changing how files are stored.
The filename and image name should be different entries. That way I can rename files that are poorly named. This was pending approval to be enabled on test.wiki. This may influence the design significantly. Correcting upload mistakes right now requires us to reupload same file.
Then there is the matter with file extensions. Example.jpg and Example.jPg and Example.JpG are three different files. Once we have the capability to rename files, such files should be dealt with as soon as possible. I believe there only are a handful (a few thousands at most)
This has been posted on bugzilla:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6451 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4421
- White Cat
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:52 PM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
FYI
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org Date: 2008/5/29 Subject: [Commons-l] On upload forms To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List commons-l@lists.wikimedia.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
For a long time we've had to suffer with an image upload form which was pretty bare-bones, while attempting to shoehorn more smarts into it through templates and JavaScript hacks.
Well, I think it's about time we prioritize really doing this thing right. Commons, and MediaWiki generally, needs an upload form which:
a) Works sensibly
b) Looks good
c) Allows you to upload the file, extract metadata, compare duplicates, make sure it's sensibly named, and *then* commit it into the system.
d) Handles batch uploads with a minimum of fuss (or at least, as minimally fussy as one can get with HTML file upload forms :)
Note that this isn't going to be done by tacking JavaScript and templates onto the existing form; this is going to be a real effort to redesign it from scratch into something that handles today's actual needs.
I'd appreciate hearing from people interested in helping out in the following capacities:
- Designing user interface mockups
- Helping code it up in MediaWiki
- Testing the new form under development
- Providing constructive criticism as we work
This effort will probably take from a few weeks to a few months to get to the point where it's really live; we may even try experiments like having the old and new forms available side-by-side on the live site so people really have a chance to bang at it in real usage without forcing an in-flux test system on everyone.
- -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iEYEARECAAYFAkg/CJcACgkQwRnhpk1wk47cmwCeLwjpDR6thinMa39erKqkITlN QYEAniraOmYsVBFSeqq7M1MKbXMkn2g/ =moPb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but I'd like to see an image duplicate search at the point the file is uploaded, and the file not being permanently saved on the Foundation servers if a duplicate already exists.
I'd also like to see a batch upload interface, something Flickr-ish which permits five or ten images to be uploaded in one action, using the same description and licence tags, something a bit like the Commonplace utility but a web based client, rather than one you need to download.
I know there's a great deal of hatred for the Flickr style interface amongst some Commons users, but I really wouldn't mind the new upload form being the start of something to knock Commons into a more user friendly media repository, I know there's a lot of good work that's gone on already with things like the new search and the suggestive search functions, but I'd like to see more and more features, things like an automatic image syntax generator on each page, so all a user needs to do is copy and paste the code from the image page on Commons into the article on their local Wiki to transclude an image.
We can have new and old interface. People can choose which one they prefer. The new one would of course be the default.
- White Cat
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 2:07 PM, Nick heligolandwp@googlemail.com wrote:
I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but I'd like to see an image duplicate search at the point the file is uploaded, and the file not being permanently saved on the Foundation servers if a duplicate already exists.
I'd also like to see a batch upload interface, something Flickr-ish which permits five or ten images to be uploaded in one action, using the same description and licence tags, something a bit like the Commonplace utility but a web based client, rather than one you need to download.
I know there's a great deal of hatred for the Flickr style interface amongst some Commons users, but I really wouldn't mind the new upload form being the start of something to knock Commons into a more user friendly media repository, I know there's a lot of good work that's gone on already with things like the new search and the suggestive search functions, but I'd like to see more and more features, things like an automatic image syntax generator on each page, so all a user needs to do is copy and paste the code from the image page on Commons into the article on their local Wiki to transclude an image. -- Nick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Nick http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Nick _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 7:07 AM, Nick heligolandwp@googlemail.com wrote:
I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but I'd like to see an image duplicate search at the point the file is uploaded, and the file not being permanently saved on the Foundation servers if a duplicate already exists.
This would be very easy to do, if by "image duplicate search" you mean "search for an exact byte-for-byte copy of the image". It was brought up just yesterday on Wikitech-l and could end up in the software within a week or two if someone feels like doing it.
If by "image duplicate search" you mean "search for similar images that might be the same one in a different format/cropped/rotated/different color depth/etc.", then that would require a considerable amount of work, probably.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 8:13 AM, White Cat wikipedia.kawaii.neko@gmail.com wrote:
We can have new and old interface. People can choose which one they prefer. The new one would of course be the default.
If a new interface is introduced, it's unlikely that the old one will be maintained. It's a waste of developer time to handle bug reports and so on on two differently-coded interfaces when one would do.
Yeah, I was meaning a byte-for-byte identical. There's often reasons why very similar files exist, such as a crop to focus on one celebrity in a cast line up, with both photos being uploaded, that sort of thing.
Must subscribe to wikitech-l :p
2008/5/30 Simetrical <Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.comSimetrical%2Bwikilist@gmail.com
:
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 7:07 AM, Nick heligolandwp@googlemail.com wrote:
I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but I'd like to see an
image
duplicate search at the point the file is uploaded, and the file not
being
permanently saved on the Foundation servers if a duplicate already
exists.
This would be very easy to do, if by "image duplicate search" you mean "search for an exact byte-for-byte copy of the image". It was brought up just yesterday on Wikitech-l and could end up in the software within a week or two if someone feels like doing it.
If by "image duplicate search" you mean "search for similar images that might be the same one in a different format/cropped/rotated/different color depth/etc.", then that would require a considerable amount of work, probably.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 8:13 AM, White Cat wikipedia.kawaii.neko@gmail.com wrote:
We can have new and old interface. People can choose which one they
prefer.
The new one would of course be the default.
If a new interface is introduced, it's unlikely that the old one will be maintained. It's a waste of developer time to handle bug reports and so on on two differently-coded interfaces when one would do.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Nick heligolandwp@googlemail.com wrote:
Yeah, I was meaning a byte-for-byte identical. There's often reasons why very similar files exist, such as a crop to focus on one celebrity in a cast line up, with both photos being uploaded, that sort of thing.
Brion has just implemented such a check.
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Simetrical Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 7:07 AM, Nick heligolandwp@googlemail.com wrote:
I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but I'd like to see an image duplicate search at the point the file is uploaded, and the file not being permanently saved on the Foundation servers if a duplicate already exists.
This would be very easy to do, if by "image duplicate search" you mean "search for an exact byte-for-byte copy of the image". It was brought up just yesterday on Wikitech-l and could end up in the software within a week or two if someone feels like doing it.
Exact duplicates are the biggest problem. I think new people upload something, then see a mistake and it's not so obvious that the page they are looking at is a wiki page thta can be edited, since they used a web form previously.
Maybe we can also make it more clear on the individual image pages that to change the values you can click edit? Not sure how exactly, but the user experience of having web form content now be editable wiki-style i think is what confuses people sometimes, leading them to just upload again to get back to the form...