Let's not confuse goal with method (or ends with means): I don't agree that the goal is "a great, neutral encyclopedia".
Rather, the goal is a "a great, free encyclopedia" and the METHOD OF PRODUCTION is:
* to let anyone, anytime, edit any article; and, * not to take sides on controversial issues
Either of these primary methods can be set aside, if it interferes with the GOAL. We restrict some contributors (via bans) or some articles (via 'protection'). And as consensus develops on shared values we might even set aside the restriction on taking sides.
For example, regarding [[terrorism]] the consensus is that it is "bad" (in an absolute moral sense) to shoot children in the back as they run away from gunmen who have taken over their school. Of course, we don't say, "Those evil men murdered the children", because a matter of policy we are writing the [[Beslan school massacre]] article with NPOV. But if no one raised a significant objection, we *could* call it evil.
Our official mandate from Jimbo is the philosophy of WikiLove: i.e., consideration for others. In our dealings with one another on this mailing list, it's mandatory: be nice, or be elsewhere (violators have been exiled).
This dovetails with the Unification Church idea of "living for the sake of others"; it's also consistent with the church's official definition of Good as "benefiting others" and Evil as "taking advantage of another for one's own benefit".
It's possible that Wikipedia could one day adopt an absolute value perspective based on these ideas -- and STILL be "a great, free encyclopedia".
Ed Poor wrote
Let's not confuse goal with method (or ends with means): I don't agree
that the goal is "a great, neutral encyclopedia".
Well, I rather thought it was. Perhaps those who want a great, partisan encyclopedia would be kind enough to fork off, before introducing the partisan stuff.
Charles
Ed Poor wrote
Let's not confuse goal with method (or ends with means): I don't agree that the goal is "a great, neutral encyclopedia".
< >Rather, the goal is a "a great, free encyclopedia"
Charles Matthews charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
Well, I rather thought it was. Perhaps those who want a great, partisan encyclopedia would be kind enough to fork off, before introducing the partisan stuff.
I think Ed is exactly right here. The primary goals are to be great and free, each of these adjectives in as many senses as possible. However, it is not even possible to be "free" in every possible sense at one time.
Neutrality, and 'no original research', are both very scalable ways to help make such a shared resource great. But I think that you would agree, Charles, that en: as a community are somewhat partisan when it comes to (for instance) freedom, openness, and tolerance of minority opinions...
+sj+ _ _ :-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...]
Sj wrote
But I think that you would agree, Charles, that en: as a community are somewhat partisan when it comes to (for instance) freedom, openness, and tolerance of minority opinions...
Well, I think we know what the shared values of WP are. We also know that they are shared by many people who disagree about other things, but can rally around NPOV as expressing 'agree to disagree' in a constructive form. So I'm concerned that NPOV could be seen as something disposable. It is always under pressure from tendentious contributions, as it is.
Charles
On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 07:57:53 +0100, Charles Matthews charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
Sj wrote
Well, I think we know what the shared values of WP are. We also know that they are shared by many people who disagree about other things, but can rally around NPOV as expressing 'agree to disagree' in a constructive form. So I'm concerned that NPOV could be seen as something disposable. It is always under pressure from tendentious contributions, as it is.
Fair enough. Far from being disposable, NPOV seems essential to WP's success. And yet this is because it turns out to produce an excellent encyclopedia, not because it was the goal all along, and the excellence just a by-product.