To any and all.
I am still trying to determine if there are copyright issues with the Joan Finney - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Finney - photo which is linked to her Article via Find-A-Grave. To recap what I've accomplished thus far:
1) I contacted the person who originally uploaded it to the Find-A-Grave site, and he said he thought the photo wasn't copyrighted.
2) I have emailed the Find-A-Grave site twice and still have received no reply.
It's a terrific photo, and I think it would look great on her Article page. My question is: couldn't someone just go ahead and upload it - and if there are issues down the line - they can be dealt with then?
What do you think?
Marc Riddell
On 3/12/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
To any and all.
I am still trying to determine if there are copyright issues with the Joan Finney - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Finney - photo which is linked to her Article via Find-A-Grave. To recap what I've accomplished thus far:
- I contacted the person who originally uploaded it to the Find-A-Grave
site, and he said he thought the photo wasn't copyrighted.
- I have emailed the Find-A-Grave site twice and still have received no
reply.
It's a terrific photo, and I think it would look great on her Article page. My question is: couldn't someone just go ahead and upload it - and if there are issues down the line - they can be dealt with then?
What do you think?
Marc Riddell
I think this is not an approach that is good for wikipedia. I see no reason to adopt a copyright policy from youtube.
Best bet might be to add something to requested images or use userboxes to try and find a wikipedian in the area.
On 3/12/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
To any and all.
I am still trying to determine if there are copyright issues with the Joan Finney - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Finney - photo which is linked to her Article via Find-A-Grave. To recap what I've accomplished thus far:
- I contacted the person who originally uploaded it to the Find-A-Grave
site, and he said he thought the photo wasn't copyrighted.
- I have emailed the Find-A-Grave site twice and still have received no
reply.
It's a terrific photo, and I think it would look great on her Article page. My question is: couldn't someone just go ahead and upload it - and if there are issues down the line - they can be dealt with then?
What do you think?
Marc Riddell
on 3/11/07 8:57 PM, geni at geniice@gmail.com wrote:
I think this is not an approach that is good for wikipedia. I see no reason to adopt a copyright policy from youtube.
I'm sure you're right - I was grasping.
Best bet might be to add something to requested images or use userboxes to try and find a wikipedian in the area.
I don't understand what either of these mean, Geni.
Marc
On 3/12/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
I don't understand what either of these mean, Geni.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_pictures
and see if any of these people live in the right area:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedians_in_Kansas
On 3/12/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
I don't understand what either of these mean, Geni.
on 3/11/07 9:43 PM, geni at geniice@gmail.com wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_pictures
and see if any of these people live in the right area:
Thanks a lot for these, Geni. It's a feisty picture of her, and I'm determined to get it placed on her Article page - one way or another.
Thanks again,
Marc
On 3/11/07, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/12/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
To any and all.
I am still trying to determine if there are copyright issues with the
Joan
Finney - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Finney - photo which is
linked to
her Article via Find-A-Grave. To recap what I've accomplished thus far:
- I contacted the person who originally uploaded it to the Find-A-Grave
site, and he said he thought the photo wasn't copyrighted.
- I have emailed the Find-A-Grave site twice and still have received no
reply.
It's a terrific photo, and I think it would look great on her Article
page.
My question is: couldn't someone just go ahead and upload it - and if
there
are issues down the line - they can be dealt with then?
What do you think?
Marc Riddell
I think this is not an approach that is good for wikipedia. I see no reason to adopt a copyright policy from youtube.
Best bet might be to add something to requested images or use userboxes to try and find a wikipedian in the area.
I agree with Geni - unless the person who uploaded the image to Find-A-Grave can show that it isn't copyright (which would probably mean that the image was explicitly released under a free license or into the public domain) the assumption should be that it is copyright.
On 3/11/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
- I contacted the person who originally uploaded it to the Find-A-Grave
site, and he said he thought the photo wasn't copyrighted.
A shame that "assume good faith" doesn't apply here.
To use a photo under "fair use" do we have to know for a fact that a photo is copyrighted and by whom or can "fair use" be used for images where the copyright status is undetermined?
On 3/12/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
It's a terrific photo, and I think it would look great on her Article page. My question is: couldn't someone just go ahead and upload it - and if there are issues down the line - they can be dealt with then?
No, you can't do that. You need to know all the requisite sourcing and licencing information before you start using the image.
However, even if you can't definitively determine the source and copyright status of the image, you may still be able to use it, as I explain below.
On 3/12/07, Ron Ritzman ritzman@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/11/07, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
- I contacted the person who originally uploaded it to the Find-A-Grave
site, and he said he thought the photo wasn't copyrighted.
A shame that "assume good faith" doesn't apply here.
To use a photo under "fair use" do we have to know for a fact that a photo is copyrighted and by whom or can "fair use" be used for images where the copyright status is undetermined?
No to the first part of your question, yes to the second.
Since copyright is automatically acquired on creation of the work (this is the case in all relevant jurisdictions), it can be presumed that the work is copyrighted unless there is evidence to show that the copyright has expired (evidence of the date of creation) or that the work has been released into the public domain or freely licenced (evidence of such a release or grant of licence).
In the absence of such evidence, we must presume the work is copyrighted.
Because it can be presumed that a work is copyrighted until it can be confirmed otherwise, it is ok to simply state that the work is presumed copyrighted, and then approach it as one would any other copyrighted image.
Keep in mind that the image, and the use of the image, will still need to meet all of the fair use criteria. Given that Finney was a very high profile public figure, it may be difficult to meet criteria #1 - notwithstanding the fact that she is dead - given that there is a good chance that there is PD material available (pictures of her by the federal government may exist) and there is also the possibility that one of the many people who took pictures of her would be prepared to release their picture under a free licence.
Stephen Bain wrote:
Since copyright is automatically acquired on creation of the work (this is the case in all relevant jurisdictions), it can be presumed that the work is copyrighted unless there is evidence to show that the copyright has expired (evidence of the date of creation) or that the work has been released into the public domain or freely licenced (evidence of such a release or grant of licence).
Another very important exception is a work which was not copyrightable in the first place.
Ec
On 3/12/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Another very important exception is a work which was not copyrightable in the first place.
Of course, but the work in question is clearly capable of being copyrighted, and I didn't think it was worth complicating a long post any further :)
Seeing as Joan Finney is dead, it's unlikely free alternatives will become available. It would acceptable, in my opinion, to invoke fair use, but yes you'd still have to figure out the original source for that image. The uploader may think it's not copyrighted, but we all know how knowledgeable the general internet user is about copyright...
Mgm