I don't think this person's subject line makes any sense, but his content claims are surely worth an investigation.
It looks from the history as though there's an ongoing edit war, and so probably more eyeballs would be helpful.
----- Forwarded message from "Dr. Iris Steineck" iris.steineck@aon.at -----
From: "Dr. Iris Steineck" iris.steineck@aon.at Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:43:11 +0100 To: jwales@bomis.com Subject: donation to ferdinand porsche? article is not available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License.
Dear Mr. Wales,
My grandfather Erwin Komenda designed the VW-beetle and Porsche sport car type 356.
I wrote this fact more than one times in the Wikipedia Ferdinand Porsche Article.
([[pl:Ferdinand Porsche]] '''Ferdinand Porsche''' ([[September 3]], [[1875]] - [[January 30]], [[1951]]) was a [[Ethnic German|German]] automotive engineer born in [[Vratislavice]], [[Austria-Hungary]] (now in the [[Czech Republic]]), who developed the original [[Volkswagen]] and a prototype of the [[Panzer VI]] [[tank]], which he nicknamed "''Tiger''".
In [[1928]], Dr. Porsche developed the first workable [[hybrid electric]] car, proving it to be a workable concept. Despite efforts by hobbyists, this technology lay virtually unused by automotive companies until the [[21st century]].
Dr. Porsche's son was [[Ferry Porsche]], the developer of the [[Porsche]] automobile, which was based on the Volkswagen design. Both, the Volkswagen and the first Porsche sport car, the Porsche type 356, were designed by Porsche's longstanding chief designer [[Erwin Komenda]].
.[[Erwin Komenda]], the longstanding Porsche chief designer, developed the car body for the famous VW-beetle and Porsche 356.
External Link: [http://www.komenda.at Erwin Komenda Porsche Designer]
But every time I wrote this facts in the wikipedia article - the new written text is cancelled immediately. I cant accept this fact. Because on the one hand Erwin Komenda developed the design of the famous cars and on the other this is no more a free encyclopaedia. So I wonder how this is possible. Have you got any donations for the Ferdinand Porsche article from Porsche or the Volkswagen-enterprise, what is wrong with that site?
Best regards Iris Steineck
----- End forwarded message -----
I've just looked at the [[Ferdinand Porsche]] article, and would offer the following opinions 1. Dr. Steineck would help her cause tremendously if she were a registered user. Despite our ideals there is often a tendency to presume that anonymous users are wrong. 2. Dr. Steineck is an Austrian who's native language is presumably not English: She has used "donation" where the rest of us would tend to use "contribution". That's a perfectly understandable error. 3. The reference to GNU-FDL appears to be a red herring. Nothing in the discussion seems to be about this. 4. The Ferdinand Porsche article is probably not the place to dispute Komenda's claims; the claims are against Ferdinand's son [[Ferry Porsche]] and it would be more appropriate in the article about the son. 5. Although it is appropriate to make a familial link between the father and son, making a disputed claim as part of the link invites problems in that it opens the disputed claim to discussion in a place where it doesn't belong. This has been a big part of the problem in the recent [[Mother Teresa]] dispute.
I hope this helps Ec
Jimmy Wales wrote:
I don't think this person's subject line makes any sense, but his content claims are surely worth an investigation.
It looks from the history as though there's an ongoing edit war, and so probably more eyeballs would be helpful.
----- Forwarded message from "Dr. Iris Steineck" iris.steineck@aon.at -----
From: "Dr. Iris Steineck" iris.steineck@aon.at
Subject: donation to ferdinand porsche? article is not available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License.
Dear Mr. Wales,
My grandfather Erwin Komenda designed the VW-beetle and Porsche sport car type 356.
I wrote this fact more than one times in the Wikipedia Ferdinand Porsche Article.
[[Ferdinand Porsche]]
But every time I wrote this facts in the wikipedia article - the new written text is cancelled immediately. I cant accept this fact. Because on the one hand Erwin Komenda developed the design of the famous cars and on the other this is no more a free encyclopaedia. So I wonder how this is possible. Have you got any donations for the Ferdinand Porsche article from Porsche or the Volkswagen-enterprise, what is wrong with that site?
Best regards Iris Steineck
----- End forwarded message -----
From: "Ray Saintonge" saintonge@telus.net
3. The reference to GNU-FDL appears to be a red herring. Nothingin the discussion seems to be about this.
I think that the reference to the GNU-FDL is something that has been metioned, namely if someone makes a contribution to a GNU-FDL text and becomes a coauthor with others there is at least an implicit obligation (perhaps even explicit) that as a contributor one's text cannot be completely removed if it contributes in a useful way to an FDL text. Removing it is at least against the spirit of what a collaobrative contribution stands for, and the statement "your text will be mercilessly edited and redistributed at will" does not imply that your contribution can be unlaterally removed because someone disagrees with your contribution, only that it will be mercilessly "edited". There is a distinction there, no? One of the reasons there have been suggestions about changing the edit page text by mav and yours truly.
Alex756 (not Rosen)
Jimmy Wales wrote:
I don't think this person's subject line makes any sense, but his content claims are surely worth an investigation.
It looks from the history as though there's an ongoing edit war, and so probably more eyeballs would be helpful.
----- Forwarded message from "Dr. Iris Steineck"
iris.steineck@aon.at -----
From: "Dr. Iris Steineck" iris.steineck@aon.at
Subject: donation to ferdinand porsche? article is not available under
the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License.
Dear Mr. Wales,
My grandfather Erwin Komenda designed the VW-beetle and Porsche sport car type 356.
I wrote this fact more than one times in the Wikipedia Ferdinand Porsche Article.
[[Ferdinand Porsche]]
But every time I wrote this facts in the wikipedia article - the new written text is cancelled immediately. I cant accept this fact. Because
on
the one hand Erwin Komenda developed the design of the famous cars and on the other this is no more a free encyclopaedia. So I wonder how this is possible. Have you got any donations for the Ferdinand Porsche article
from
Porsche or the Volkswagen-enterprise, what is wrong with that site?
Best regards Iris Steineck
----- End forwarded message -----
I have been one of several people who has removed some contributions on Erwin Komenda.
My issues have been not that I disagree with the assertion that Erwin Komenda was more responsible for the designs from Ferdinand Porsche's engineering consultancy pre-1945, and the Porsche car company post-1945, than he has generally been credited for. There's certainly a reasonable case to be made there.
My problems with this have been:
* There is no need for this information to be posted scattershot on every page associated with Porsche * There has been no attempt to fit the text in with the articles - instead it's the same cut and paste text placed in each one * The net effect has been to make Wikipedia's articles on the subjects read as if we're pushing an agenda instead of documenting encyclopedically * Attempts to engage this user in discussion have been utterly and completely ignored. Possibly out of simply not understanding Wikipedia all that well. * Some of the edits have had the effect of (in my opinion) overstating the importance of Komenda and denying the input of others
One might note that I spent a fair amount of effort making Erwin Komenda's article better, improving the wording and grammar.
I must confess a little bit of bias against a user who doesn't create a username and doesn't engage in discussion. In the spirit of Assume Good Faith, I will presume that these have been due to lack of knowledge of the way Wikipedia works.
I am certainly not anti her point; I am against some of the ways she is presenting her case, and would like to work with her to make the articles as fair and accurate as we can.
Should I email her directly, do you think?
-Matt (User:Morven)
Matthew Brown wrote:
- Attempts to engage this user in discussion have been utterly and
completely ignored. Possibly out of simply not understanding Wikipedia all that well.
Well, to me, that's pretty important. It's hard to find a satisfactory common ground if he won't even log in and answer questions or contribute to the discussion in any way.
I must confess a little bit of bias against a user who doesn't create a username and doesn't engage in discussion. In the spirit of Assume Good Faith, I will presume that these have been due to lack of knowledge of the way Wikipedia works.
Yes, I agree with all of that -- both the little bit of bias, and the assumption of good faith.
I am certainly not anti her point; I am against some of the ways she is presenting her case, and would like to work with her to make the articles as fair and accurate as we can.
Should I email her directly, do you think?
Yes, I think that would be delightful.
--Jimbo