Chris, I understand and respect your position. I think, however, it is not sufficiently clear that Sl's post here was the result of the four months of difficulty many of us have had in working with WHEELER. He has made frequent Anti-Semitic remarks, as well as being blatantly rude to a number of editors (questioning their competence, their belief in God at one point, etc.). Suggesting a ban isn't in violation with wikilove at this point, I think. I, Kim Bruning, Sl, Sam Spade, and numerous other editors have done our best to encourage WHEELER to do good here, and have attempted to correct him when he has abused our good faith. Enough is enough. That's my opinion. Certainly a call for a ban here isn't going to get results -- that's an AC measure. But I think Sl is posting here because those of us who have tried to work with WHEELER are frustrated to the point of giving up. I hope you, Chris, will begin to work on compromise and wikilove with WHEELER -- if you are successful, you're a better man than I am. And it may be that you will discover that the quoted comment isn't one misinterpretation by SL of a researched fact of WHEELER's, but rather it is the tip of an iceberg of bigotry and intolerance. I wish you luck in your work with him.
James R. (Jwrosenzweig)
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--- James Rosenzweig jwrosenzweig@yahoo.com wrote:
Chris, I understand and respect your position.
Ok.
I think, however, it is not sufficiently clear that Sl's post here was the result of the four months of difficulty many of us have had in working with WHEELER.
Indeed, it was not. The poster should have made that clearer.
He has made frequent Anti-Semitic remarks, as well as being blatantly rude to a number of editors (questioning their competence, their belief in God at one point, etc.).
Not illegal is it? It's called freedom of speech. You should try it sometime.
Suggesting a ban isn't in violation with wikilove at this point, I think. I, Kim Bruning, Sl, Sam Spade, and numerous other editors have done our best to encourage WHEELER to do good here, and have attempted to correct him when he has abused our good faith.
Obviously your efforts, while well-intended, have failed. Again, whose fault?
Enough is enough. That's my opinion.
Being frustrated with a situation is a personal emotion, and is rarely effective in logical discourse.
Certainly a call for a ban here isn't going to get results -- that's an AC measure.
Yes. That was one of my points.
But I think Sl is posting here because those of us who have tried to work with WHEELER are frustrated to the point of giving up.
Again, that's their fault. They should apply their talents where they are effective, and leave the rest alone.
I hope you, Chris, will begin to work on compromise and wikilove with WHEELER -- if you are successful, you're a better man than I am.
Better is POV.
And it may be that you will discover that the quoted comment isn't one misinterpretation by SL of a researched fact of WHEELER's, but rather it is the tip of an iceberg of bigotry and intolerance.
Then it sould have been stated as such. Again, calling on a ban for one infraction without mentioning the sum of the infractions is not very good communication.
I wish you luck in your work with him.
Never said I was going to. Got other fish to fry.
Sorry for the americanism in the expression to the international readers.
===== Chris Mahan 818.943.1850 cell chris_mahan@yahoo.com chris.mahan@gmail.com http://www.christophermahan.com/
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Chris,
As someone who is not in the least involved in this situation, I find your breezy blowing off of these people's concerns as offensive. If you aren't interested in becoming involved, then may I suggest you not bother to deal with it?
RickK
Christopher Mahan chris_mahan@yahoo.com wrote: --- James Rosenzweig wrote:
Chris, I understand and respect your position.
Ok.
I think, however, it is not sufficiently clear that Sl's post here was the result of the four months of difficulty many of us have had in working with WHEELER.
Indeed, it was not. The poster should have made that clearer.
He has made frequent Anti-Semitic remarks, as well as being blatantly rude to a number of editors (questioning their competence, their belief in God at one point, etc.).
Not illegal is it? It's called freedom of speech. You should try it sometime.
Suggesting a ban isn't in violation with wikilove at this point, I think. I, Kim Bruning, Sl, Sam Spade, and numerous other editors have done our best to encourage WHEELER to do good here, and have attempted to correct him when he has abused our good faith.
Obviously your efforts, while well-intended, have failed. Again, whose fault?
Enough is enough. That's my opinion.
Being frustrated with a situation is a personal emotion, and is rarely effective in logical discourse.
Certainly a call for a ban here isn't going to get results -- that's an AC measure.
Yes. That was one of my points.
But I think Sl is posting here because those of us who have tried to work with WHEELER are frustrated to the point of giving up.
Again, that's their fault. They should apply their talents where they are effective, and leave the rest alone.
I hope you, Chris, will begin to work on compromise and wikilove with WHEELER -- if you are successful, you're a better man than I am.
Better is POV.
And it may be that you will discover that the quoted comment isn't one misinterpretation by SL of a researched fact of WHEELER's, but rather it is the tip of an iceberg of bigotry and intolerance.
Then it sould have been stated as such. Again, calling on a ban for one infraction without mentioning the sum of the infractions is not very good communication.
I wish you luck in your work with him.
Never said I was going to. Got other fish to fry.
Sorry for the americanism in the expression to the international readers.
===== Chris Mahan 818.943.1850 cell chris_mahan@yahoo.com chris.mahan@gmail.com http://www.christophermahan.com/
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--- Rick giantsrick13@yahoo.com wrote:
As someone who is not in the least involved in this situation, I find your breezy blowing off of these people's concerns as offensive. If you aren't interested in becoming involved, then may I suggest you not bother to deal with it?
You are correct to be offended, from your point of view. From mine however, you are not. But that's not the point.
If I were not involved, I would not have replied to the mail.
I suggest that if someone says : "I hate americans, they're assholes", they have a right to say that, and that might be hate speech (since it's targeted at a group of people), yet I will not take action against them because it makes people unconfortable.
[sarcasm="on"] Freedom of Speech in America: You can say whatever you want, as long as it's not against the state, any religious or ethnic groups, minorities, disadvantaged, disabled, and certainly not against gay/lesbian/bi or women. You are free to insult white protestants heterosexual males, as long that does not involve National Security, is not a commercial message, and does not involve imminent danger. [sarcasm="off"]
Is that your definition of Free Speech? Are these the laws we want to live by?
Are these the standards we want to apply to the W?
If people are being silly, then, please, coach them. If they're being destructive, then ban them. But if they stand on a soap box and scream to the top of their lungs how The End Of The World Is Near, then keep walking.
===== Chris Mahan 818.943.1850 cell chris_mahan@yahoo.com chris.mahan@gmail.com http://www.christophermahan.com/
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