From: David Gerard [mailto:dgerard@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 12:10 PM
Thank goodness for that. In a Wikipedia with otherwise really very good and *useful* computer articles (i.e., I use it as my standard reference in real life), [[Linux]] is a POV- pushing dog's breakfast of advocacy. This happens with a lot of open source-related articles, because too many contributors really do not understand NPOV in any context whatsoever, only advocacy. I've tried fixing it in the past, but the effort of holding back the tide made me wish I was working on more peacable areas of the wiki, like Israel- Palestine topics.
I have concentrated more on "balance" than on any other aspect of quality, during my nearly 4 years of volunteer service here at Wikipedia. Holding back the tide of advocacy is exhausting work, David, let me tell you!
Fortunately, the editor in chief at EP is an expert in Israeli-Palestine peace efforts. He drafted the [[Jerusalem Declaration]], for one thing. And at a small meeting he arranged last Thursday, I got to meet the Development Director of "Children of Abraham".
We need more dialogue and understanding. We also need to identify and celebrate what we have in common. I believe that an encyclopedia can provide reliable knowledge that helps people realize that "underneath our differences, we all are one". Anyway as a Unificationist, that's my dream.
Uncle Ed
On 10/24/05, Poor, Edmund W Edmund.W.Poor@abc.com wrote:
From: David Gerard [mailto:dgerard@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 12:10 PM
Thank goodness for that. In a Wikipedia with otherwise really very good and *useful* computer articles (i.e., I use it as my standard reference in real life), [[Linux]] is a POV- pushing dog's breakfast of advocacy. This happens with a lot of open source-related articles, because too many contributors really do not understand NPOV in any context whatsoever, only advocacy. I've tried fixing it in the past, but the effort of holding back the tide made me wish I was working on more peacable areas of the wiki, like Israel- Palestine topics.
I have concentrated more on "balance" than on any other aspect of quality, during my nearly 4 years of volunteer service here at Wikipedia. Holding back the tide of advocacy is exhausting work, David, let me tell you!
Fortunately, the editor in chief at EP is an expert in Israeli-Palestine peace efforts. He drafted the [[Jerusalem Declaration]], for one thing. And at a small meeting he arranged last Thursday, I got to meet the Development Director of "Children of Abraham".
We need more dialogue and understanding. We also need to identify and celebrate what we have in common. I believe that an encyclopedia can provide reliable knowledge that helps people realize that "underneath our differences, we all are one". Anyway as a Unificationist, that's my dream.
Uncle Ed _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I've raised this issue on the [[In the News]] page, but got little response.
Rather than unilaterally propose a change on the page, I decided to bring in here first to see can we get a consensus here initially.
A lot of users refer to the above page as ''ITN''. That is deeply unwise. The page uses the acronyms that media uses - BBC, RTÉ, NBC, ABC, CBS, etc. ''ITN'' is also an acronym used by a news agency, Independent Television News, which supplies news coverage for ITV News and Channel 4 News in the UK and wire services for any international organisations.
A google search linking to our In the News page will show up references to ITN and think that the ITN being mentioned is the news agency, not an insider acronym for our page.
I know someone in ITN who has had negative feedback because of an error we carried. The person who spotted him and mentioned the error to him saw ITN on the talk page and thought that the error was the result of mistake by Independent Television News. So far some people in the real ITN are peeved. If we are not careful and make some clanger (and as many of those contributing to the page aren't journalists they are often clumsy in their use of language in a news report and get things wrong) the real ITN might go from peeved to seriously pissed off.
ITN is their registered name, not ours. For our own sake we should stop people using ITN when they mean our page. If necessary a new name is needed for the page to avoid a serious problem happening and seriously pissing off the real ITN.
Thom jtdirl
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On 24/10/05, Tom Cadden thomcadden@yahoo.ie wrote:
I've raised this issue on the [[In the News]] page, but got little response.
Rather than unilaterally propose a change on the page, I decided to bring in here first to see can we get a consensus here initially.
A lot of users refer to the above page as ''ITN''.
...
ITN is their registered name, not ours. For our own sake we should stop people using ITN when they mean our page. If necessary a new name is needed for the page to avoid a serious problem happening and seriously pissing off the real ITN.
I agree it's confusing.
ITN probably came about via the [[WP:ITN]] shorthand (compare references to RFC, RFA, VFD, CV, and so forth); would it be worth deprecating this and trying to spread the use of [[WP:NEWS]] as the reference?
-- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
I like that idea. But how would we deal with old links? We can't just deprecate a link and not replace it. If they call it ITN, it will still be called ITN if it points to [[WP:NEWS]].
--Mgm
On 10/24/05, Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com wrote:
On 24/10/05, Tom Cadden thomcadden@yahoo.ie wrote:
I've raised this issue on the [[In the News]] page, but got little response.
Rather than unilaterally propose a change on the page, I decided to bring in here first to see can we get a consensus here initially.
A lot of users refer to the above page as ''ITN''.
...
ITN is their registered name, not ours. For our own sake we should stop people using ITN when they mean our page. If necessary a new name is needed for the page to avoid a serious problem happening and seriously pissing off the real ITN.
I agree it's confusing.
ITN probably came about via the [[WP:ITN]] shorthand (compare references to RFC, RFA, VFD, CV, and so forth); would it be worth deprecating this and trying to spread the use of [[WP:NEWS]] as the reference?
--
- Andrew Gray
andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 24/10/05, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
I like that idea. But how would we deal with old links? We can't just deprecate a link and not replace it. If they call it ITN, it will still be called ITN if it points to [[WP:NEWS]].
I pretty much meant what Flcello suggests below: ask people to call it News (or something) rather than ITN. Not perfect - but most people say AfD not VfD now.
-- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Unless we rename it to something like "Current Events" People will continue to abbreviate it ITN out of habit.
~Ilya N. (User:Ilyanep)
On 10/25/05, Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com wrote:
On 24/10/05, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
I like that idea. But how would we deal with old links? We can't just deprecate a link and not replace it. If they call it ITN, it will still be called ITN if it points to [[WP:NEWS]].
I pretty much meant what Flcello suggests below: ask people to call it News (or something) rather than ITN. Not perfect - but most people say AfD not VfD now.
--
- Andrew Gray
andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
I think this is right. Insisting people not call a page name by its obvious acronym won't work and won't be intuitive. A new page name will be better, and people won't continue calling something by an acronym that no longer makes sense for long (VfD is still comprehensible but becoming less so. And the news section is nowhere as trafficked or used as VfD ever is/was).
So... suggestions?
*Current Events (WP:CE) *News Desk (WP:ND) *Current News (WP:CN --> used currently for Clueless Newbie) *...your suggestion here?
FF
On 10/25/05, Ilya N. ilyanep@gmail.com wrote:
Unless we rename it to something like "Current Events" People will continue to abbreviate it ITN out of habit.
~Ilya N. (User:Ilyanep)
On 10/25/05, Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com wrote:
On 24/10/05, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
I like that idea. But how would we deal with old links? We can't just deprecate a link and not replace it. If they call it ITN, it will still be called ITN if it points to [[WP:NEWS]].
I pretty much meant what Flcello suggests below: ask people to call it News (or something) rather than ITN. Not perfect - but most people say AfD not VfD now.
--
- Andrew Gray
andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Tom Cadden wrote:
I've raised this issue on the [[In the News]] page,
<snip>
In the News - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
This article is about the television series "In the News." For a list of current events that are currently in the news, please see the article [[Current events]].
[[WP:ITN]] redirects to {{In the news}}.
Which is the bigger issue here: a shortcut which is clearly in the Wikipedia namespace, or a non-existant article trying to mirror Wikinews? We actually don't have an article saying what a current event is.
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