Martin Harper (MyRedDice) is again censoring the article, "Palestinian views of the peace process". Instead of deleting the entire article, Martin Harper has deleted most of the (verfied) facts and quotes, leaving a skeleton article with vietually no content!
This specific problem was already discussed in detail a few weeks ago. It was decided that when Danny mass deleted this vast amount of information, it amounted to vandalism, or censorship. It was decided that when Zero did the same thing, this too was censorship.
Jimbo, some anonymous folk, and myself made many arguments on simple points: One may not delete verified historical facts and quotes simply because it makes them uncomfortable. You cannot push your political agenda by deletin facts that are inconvenient.
Please re-read Jimbo's many posts on this issue. We cannot have any kind of encyclopedia at all if we mass delete huge amounts of facts and quotes to push political agendas.
Jimbo was very clear that the problem was not one of NPOV, but one of people trying to avoid discussion of certain points altogether. Instead of improving an article, people were trying to make it disappear. That is uncalled for.
I am trying to mitigate the damage caused by Martin, but he is really making a one person censorship campaign his full time job. I am requesting mediation. However, we require mediators who are _not_ avowedly anti-Israel and pro-Arafat, because that is precisely the problem.
We should be discussing _how_ to present facts, not _if_ we should present them! For shame.
Robert (RK)
===== "I prefer a wicked person who knows he is wicked, to a righteous person who knows he is righteous". The Seer of Lublin [Jacob Isaac Ha-Hozeh Mi-Lublin, 1745-1815]
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Robert,
Without any wish to imply any more than just my plain words, I appreciated your email general civil tone.
hope I am clear here :-(
We are currently trying to decide who could help you both.
Robert a écrit:
Martin Harper (MyRedDice) is again censoring the article, "Palestinian views of the peace process". Instead of deleting the entire article, Martin Harper has deleted most of the (verfied) facts and quotes, leaving a skeleton article with vietually no content!
This specific problem was already discussed in detail a few weeks ago. It was decided that when Danny mass deleted this vast amount of information, it amounted to vandalism, or censorship. It was decided that when Zero did the same thing, this too was censorship.
Jimbo, some anonymous folk, and myself made many arguments on simple points: One may not delete verified historical facts and quotes simply because it makes them uncomfortable. You cannot push your political agenda by deletin facts that are inconvenient.
Please re-read Jimbo's many posts on this issue. We cannot have any kind of encyclopedia at all if we mass delete huge amounts of facts and quotes to push political agendas.
Jimbo was very clear that the problem was not one of NPOV, but one of people trying to avoid discussion of certain points altogether. Instead of improving an article, people were trying to make it disappear. That is uncalled for.
I am trying to mitigate the damage caused by Martin, but he is really making a one person censorship campaign his full time job. I am requesting mediation. However, we require mediators who are _not_ avowedly anti-Israel and pro-Arafat, because that is precisely the problem.
We should be discussing _how_ to present facts, not _if_ we should present them! For shame.
Robert (RK)
===== "I prefer a wicked person who knows he is wicked, to a righteous person who knows he is righteous". The Seer of Lublin [Jacob Isaac Ha-Hozeh Mi-Lublin, 1745-1815]
Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
On 01/25/04 at 07:05 AM, Robert rkscience100@yahoo.com said:
Martin Harper (MyRedDice) is again censoring the article, "Palestinian views of the peace process". Instead of deleting the entire article, Martin Harper has deleted most of the (verfied) facts and quotes, leaving a skeleton article with vietually no content!
Robert is once again trying to shift the parameters of debate from the validity and representation of Palestinian viewpoints within the discourse of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to that of "censorship", which is, plainly and simply, a canard.
This specific problem was already discussed in detail a few weeks ago. It was decided that [...]
Nothing was "decided" a few weeks ago. Jimbo expressed his opinion on the subject, as is his right. Given his position within this community, his point of view naturally carries substantial weight but by no means represents a definitive and binding judgement.
One may not delete verified historical facts and quotes simply because it makes them uncomfortable. You cannot push your political agenda by deletin facts that are inconvenient.
The issue is not whether these quotes are verifable or not but simply the fact -- as I have pointed out here before -- that taken out of context -- as they were here -- they are misleading. Given Israel's overwhelming military and economic power, such nationalistic saber-rattling on the part of Arafat and others can only be considered pathetic bluster, and most charitably can be seen as a shameless effort to distract his Palestinian listeners from the fact that he sold out their future for short-term personal gain. Since you don't seem to be interested in adding the missing context to this article (no surprise there), Martin is entirely correct and should be applauded for removing this material which otherwise serves as nothing more than crass anti-Palestine propaganda and is a blemish on the image of neutrality we trying to achieve in this project.
V.