A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get one if I asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to openness, it should have little to no impact on any facet of our project. Without searchable archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or how you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
Will Johnson
In a message dated 7/30/2009 8:21:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sean@silentflame.com writes:
Greetings,
The IRC Group Contacts decided last year to hold a surgery every three months where general IRC matters could be brought up for discussion in an environment in which IRC people able to put those into action (which includes all the contacts themselves) were present and involved. Regrettably it took just over a year for the second meeting to be organised, but this pattern will not be repeated!
Therefore we invite you to visit http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Group_Contacts/Meetings/August_2009 and sign up for the meeting if you are someone interested in how IRC runs and especially if you are responsible for one or more channels. That page will shortly contain procedural information on how we intend to structure the meeting to get the most out of it. For convenience, I shall note that the meeting is at 1900Z on 3rd August 2009 in #wikimedia-irc-meetings on freenode.
Yours,
Sean Whitton (seanw on IRC) For the IRC Group Contacts
I have posted this message to the main public mailing lists to which I subscribe and would appreciate circulation of the meeting's existence to as many other languages/projects as possible as this is open to all - but please note that the meeting will be held in English.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
It should be noted that you can, like every other freenode user that wants to keep logs, establish a connection and keep your very own. For example, I have a ClueNet shell account, which is very convenient for this purpose, to which irssi stores all of my logs in ~fastlizard4/logs. If I ever want to search the logs, all I have to do is open up nano and use the search function, or simply `cat ~/logs/channel.log|grep 'Search string'`. You simply cannot release these logs to the public (under current policy). In irssi, to start logging, all you have to do is '/log open -autoopen -targets #channel ~/channel.log' and that channel will be logged. Similar commands exist in every IRC client that I know. It may not be totally "open" as you desire, but anyone can do it and have there own set of logs. - -- - --FastLizard4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FastLizard4 | http://scalar.cluenet.org/~fastlizard4/)
WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get one if I asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to openness, it should have little to no impact on any facet of our project. Without searchable archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or how you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
Will Johnson
In a message dated 7/30/2009 8:21:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sean@silentflame.com writes:
Greetings,
The IRC Group Contacts decided last year to hold a surgery every three months where general IRC matters could be brought up for discussion in an environment in which IRC people able to put those into action (which includes all the contacts themselves) were present and involved. Regrettably it took just over a year for the second meeting to be organised, but this pattern will not be repeated!
Therefore we invite you to visit http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Group_Contacts/Meetings/August_2009 and sign up for the meeting if you are someone interested in how IRC runs and especially if you are responsible for one or more channels. That page will shortly contain procedural information on how we intend to structure the meeting to get the most out of it. For convenience, I shall note that the meeting is at 1900Z on 3rd August 2009 in #wikimedia-irc-meetings on freenode.
Yours,
Sean Whitton (seanw on IRC) For the IRC Group Contacts
I have posted this message to the main public mailing lists to which I subscribe and would appreciate circulation of the meeting's existence to as many other languages/projects as possible as this is open to all
- but please note that the meeting will be held in English.
Was that English? :D ~Keegan
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:27 PM, FastLizard4 fastlizard4@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
It should be noted that you can, like every other freenode user that wants to keep logs, establish a connection and keep your very own. For example, I have a ClueNet shell account, which is very convenient for this purpose, to which irssi stores all of my logs in ~fastlizard4/logs. If I ever want to search the logs, all I have to do is open up nano and use the search function, or simply `cat ~/logs/channel.log|grep 'Search string'`. You simply cannot release these logs to the public (under current policy). In irssi, to start logging, all you have to do is '/log open -autoopen -targets #channel ~/channel.log' and that channel will be logged. Similar commands exist in every IRC client that I know. It may not be totally "open" as you desire, but anyone can do it and have there own set of logs.
- --FastLizard4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FastLizard4 |
http://scalar.cluenet.org/~fastlizard4/)
WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get one
if I
asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to openness,
it
should have little to no impact on any facet of our project. Without
searchable
archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or how you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
Will Johnson
In a message dated 7/30/2009 8:21:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sean@silentflame.com writes:
Greetings,
The IRC Group Contacts decided last year to hold a surgery every three months where general IRC matters could be brought up for discussion in an environment in which IRC people able to put those into action (which includes all the contacts themselves) were present and involved. Regrettably it took just over a year for the second meeting to be organised, but this pattern will not be repeated!
Therefore we invite you to visit http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Group_Contacts/Meetings/August_2009 and sign up for the meeting if you are someone interested in how IRC runs and especially if you are responsible for one or more channels. That page will shortly contain procedural information on how we intend to structure the meeting to get the most out of it. For convenience, I shall note that the meeting is at 1900Z on 3rd August 2009 in #wikimedia-irc-meetings on freenode.
Yours,
Sean Whitton (seanw on IRC) For the IRC Group Contacts
I have posted this message to the main public mailing lists to which I subscribe and would appreciate circulation of the meeting's existence to as many other languages/projects as possible as this is open to all
- but please note that the meeting will be held in English.
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WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Keegan Paul wrote:
Was that English? :D ~Keegan
Irclish perhaps? ;-)
Ec
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:27 PM, FastLizard4 fastlizard4@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
It should be noted that you can, like every other freenode user that wants to keep logs, establish a connection and keep your very own. For example, I have a ClueNet shell account, which is very convenient for this purpose, to which irssi stores all of my logs in ~fastlizard4/logs. If I ever want to search the logs, all I have to do is open up nano and use the search function, or simply `cat ~/logs/channel.log|grep 'Search string'`. You simply cannot release these logs to the public (under current policy). In irssi, to start logging, all you have to do is '/log open -autoopen -targets #channel ~/channel.log' and that channel will be logged. Similar commands exist in every IRC client that I know. It may not be totally "open" as you desire, but anyone can do it and have there own set of logs.
- --FastLizard4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FastLizard4 |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
This is what happens when you mix computer programmers and mailing lists. :P - -- - --FastLizard4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FastLizard4 | http://scalar.cluenet.org/~fastlizard4/)
Ray Saintonge wrote:
Keegan Paul wrote:
Was that English? :D ~Keegan
Irclish perhaps? ;-)
Ec
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:27 PM, FastLizard4 fastlizard4@gmail.com wrote:
It should be noted that you can, like every other freenode user that wants to keep logs, establish a connection and keep your very own. For example, I have a ClueNet shell account, which is very convenient for this purpose, to which irssi stores all of my logs in ~fastlizard4/logs. If I ever want to search the logs, all I have to do is open up nano and use the search function, or simply `cat ~/logs/channel.log|grep 'Search string'`. You simply cannot release these logs to the public (under current policy). In irssi, to start logging, all you have to do is '/log open -autoopen -targets #channel ~/channel.log' and that channel will be logged. Similar commands exist in every IRC client that I know. It may not be totally "open" as you desire, but anyone can do it and have there own set of logs.
- --FastLizard4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FastLizard4 |
Why couldn't the logs be released to the public ?
-----Original Message----- From: FastLizard4 fastlizard4@gmail.com To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 7:27 pm Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] IRC Group Contacts Surgery, August 2009
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
It should be noted that you can, like every other freenode user that wants to keep logs, establish a connection and keep your very own. For example, I have a ClueNet shell account, which is very convenient for this purpose, to which irssi stores all of my logs in ~fastlizard4/logs. If I ever want to search the logs, all I have to do is open up nano and use the search function, or simply `cat ~/logs/channel.log|grep 'Search string'`. You simply cannot release these logs to the public (under current policy). In irssi, to start logging, all you have to do is '/log open -autoopen -targets #channel ~/channel.log' and that channel will be logged. Similar commands exist in every IRC client that I know. It may not be totally "open" as you desire, but anyone can do it and have there own set of logs. - -- - --FastLizard4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FastLizard4 | http://scalar.cluenet.org/~fastlizard4/)
WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get
one if I
asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to
openness, it
should have little to no impact on any facet of our project.
Without searchable
archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or
how
you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
Will Johnson
In a message dated 7/30/2009 8:21:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sean@silentflame.com writes:
Greetings,
The IRC Group Contacts decided last year to hold a surgery every
three
months where general IRC matters could be brought up for discussion
in
an environment in which IRC people able to put those into action (which includes all the contacts themselves) were present and involved. Regrettably it took just over a year for the second meeting to be organised, but this pattern will not be repeated!
Therefore we invite you to visit
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Group_Contacts/Meetings/August_2009
and sign up for the meeting if you are someone interested in how IRC runs and especially if you are responsible for one or more channels. That page will shortly contain procedural information on how we
intend
to structure the meeting to get the most out of it. For convenience,
I
shall note that the meeting is at 1900Z on 3rd August 2009 in #wikimedia-irc-meetings on freenode.
Yours,
Sean Whitton (seanw on IRC) For the IRC Group Contacts
I have posted this message to the main public mailing lists to which
I
subscribe and would appreciate circulation of the meeting's existence to as many other languages/projects as possible as this is open to
all
- but please note that the meeting will be held in English.
_______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
One reason they are not publicly archived is so that discussions are not driven into DCC for want of not being held to word, quoted, or caught displaying a degree of ignorance or a prominent prejudice that you actually want to be argued out of. It can be live and off the cuff remarks, perhaps even admissions about personal and otherwise private life. There really is no telling how your logs will date. I remember one time when it was newsfeed about war in Tibet, then noise about magnetic levitation. I find IRC tiring to read and follow when it gets active, then boring when it slows down. Then there was that ad for carbonated black piss. The trick is to make the logs yourself in whatever group you want, and pretty much keep it to yourself.
WJhonson@aol.com wrote in message news:bdd.55588ff0.37a34137@aol.com...
A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get one if I asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to openness, it should have little to no impact on any facet of our project. Without searchable archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or how you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
Will Johnson
In a message dated 7/30/2009 8:21:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sean@silentflame.com writes:
Greetings,
The IRC Group Contacts decided last year to hold a surgery every three months where general IRC matters could be brought up for discussion in an environment in which IRC people able to put those into action (which includes all the contacts themselves) were present and involved. Regrettably it took just over a year for the second meeting to be organised, but this pattern will not be repeated!
Therefore we invite you to visit http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Group_Contacts/Meetings/August_2009 and sign up for the meeting if you are someone interested in how IRC runs and especially if you are responsible for one or more channels. That page will shortly contain procedural information on how we intend to structure the meeting to get the most out of it. For convenience, I shall note that the meeting is at 1900Z on 3rd August 2009 in #wikimedia-irc-meetings on freenode.
Yours,
Sean Whitton (seanw on IRC) For the IRC Group Contacts
I have posted this message to the main public mailing lists to which I subscribe and would appreciate circulation of the meeting's existence to as many other languages/projects as possible as this is open to all
- but please note that the meeting will be held in English.
-- Sean Whitton / sean@silentflame.com OpenPGP KeyID: 0x25F4EAB7
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Jay Litwyn wrote:
One reason they are not publicly archived is so that discussions are not driven into DCC for want of not being held to word, quoted, or caught displaying a degree of ignorance or a prominent prejudice that you actually want to be argued out of. It can be live and off the cuff remarks, perhaps even admissions about personal and otherwise private life. There really is no telling how your logs will date. I remember one time when it was newsfeed about war in Tibet, then noise about magnetic levitation. I find IRC tiring to read and follow when it gets active, then boring when it slows down. Then there was that ad for carbonated black piss. The trick is to make the logs yourself in whatever group you want, and pretty much keep it to yourself.
I prefer having nothing to do with IRC, but I am often left with the impression that its participants come to some agreements which they treat as decisive elsewhere. That subverts acountaability.
Ec
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 19:32, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get one if I asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to openness, it should have little to no impact on any facet of our project. Without searchable archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or how you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:46, wjhonson@aol.com wrote:
Why couldn't the logs be released to the public ?
Wikimedia's IRC channels have a (very) long-standing no public logging policy with the argument that IRC is not on-wiki and the extra freedom of no logs encourages people to float ideas that they might not otherwise dare to suggest. There are other arguments too.
There are plenty of us that disagree with this policy despite being in the front line in enforcing it, including myself. To me, it's foolish because it's totally unenforceable. The people we don't want to post logs - i.e. the trolls - still do so on their various websites, meaning that little is achieved with the policy other than giving ops a good reason to ban troublesome users. There was however little consensus to change the policy when discussions were held maybe a year ago, so nothing was altered, and we continue to enforce the policy as best we can.
S