I believe there is overwhelming evidence that this user is not interested in any way of contributing NPOV content to wikipedia but instead vandalising articles.
==Examples==
* Inserting a picture of Ariol Sharon on the [[Penis]] page with the summary ''INSERTING PIC OF UGLY DICK SHARON''
* Inserting a picture of Sharon the the [[Feces]] page with the summary ''SHARON IS FECES''
* Inserting a picture of a penis on the [[Ariel Sharon]] page with the summary ''new pic looks more like him''
* replacing real headlines and texts in [[Israeli-Palestinian conflict]] with === ZIONIST TERROR===
The Zionists are the REAL terrorists.
''and''
The Zionist entity, which the Zionists call "Israel" so that everyone forgets their crimes against the Arab nation of Palestine, is the world's biggest terrorist. Like Nazi Germany and bin Laden, this terrorist must be destroyed so that Palestine can strech from the river to the sea.
He summarised his changes as ''This site is crawling with Zionists''
* In [[Intifada]] he replaced a paragraph with the following ''Both intifadas were originally characterized by civil disobedience by the [[Palestinians]], which escalated into the use of honorable armed insurrection. Many Palestinians, including women and children, were martyred due to the Nazi-fascist brutality of the Zionists.'' The summary he gave was ''This site is crawling with Zionists''.
* redirected [[Israel]] to <nowiki>[[Zionist Entity]]</nowiki>. I deleted the page and restored it to its proper location, but he reinstated it, leading to a second deletion.
I do not have any problem with a pro-Palestinian viewpoint on wiki. Indeed I have been called ''pro-Arab'' and ''anti-semite'' by RK for seeking to stop his blatent pro-Israeli propagandising of some pages. Personally I do believe that wiki represents the what outside the US is seen as America's ''Israelophile'' sympathies. But it is crystal clear that this user is not trying to offer a balancing analysis of the Palestinian analysis of the Middle East problem. He is simply maliciously trying to vandalise articles. It is worth noting a similar user appeared on wiki some weeks ago propagandising articles supposedly from one viewpoint, yet whose contributions seemed nothing but vandalistic malicious nonsense, not a serious attempt at offering an alternative viewpoint. It might be worth someone checking this user's IP and comparing it to that user to see whether it is the same person. This user here clearly warrants a ban, not for his opinions but for his malicious vandalism of pages. [[User:Jtdirl|FearÉIREANN]] 12:19, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
BTW 172 summed up this user's contributions with the following, which I concur with.
I can see that you're a mature and articulate advocate of your cause, laying out very convincing arguments involving poo poo and wee wees. 172 08:20, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Since I started this page, Pl wrote on the talk page
I will stop messing with pages without permission. I will stop making rules on my page. However, I still want to be able to have others sign the list I'm starting agreeing that Zionism is racism.
I agree Zionism = racism
* user Palestine liberator
After changes, that version was posted at 13:02, 4 Aug 2003. He then followed it up 8 minutes later, at 13:10, 4 Aug 2003 with
* United States - some in the Palestinian movement and others regard America as a puppet of the Zionists.
So much for the promised neutrality and stopping messing. This guy is simply playing games.
I have already had to protect one page that he continually reverted over and over and over again. I and others have been continually reverting other pages. A ban is /urgently/ required.
A ban page is at [[User talk:Palestinian liberator/ban]]. Please express your viewers whether here on the list or there on the page. A decision is clearly needed quickly before the scale of vandalism gets out of hand.
JT
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A ban page is at [[User talk:Palestinian liberator/ban]]. Please express your viewers whether here on the list or there on the page. A decision is clearly needed quickly before the scale of vandalism gets out of hand.
I'm convinced. Palestinian liberator is to be banned. Can someone take care of this for me?
It might be helpful -- though it is hard to say -- if someone who considers themselves generally or overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian but NPOV could write to this person explaining NPOV and what not, and explaining that contributions like that are just going to be deleted, and that a more effective way to help the cause is to contribute materials that is simple and factual and uncontroversial.
One of the advantages of NPOV is that all of us believe fervently that everyone would agree with us if only they had all the facts. So no matter what your POV, if you *really* believe in it, you will agree that simply laying out the facts, warts and all, will be sufficient to convince.
--Jimbo
Well, at first it can *seem to go either way -- someone might come off as brash and blatant -- feeling like they have to swing a sword around, and then they calm down. This obviously wasnt the case, and his "edits" had about as much to do with politics as the "homomorph" (?) guy did on Hephaestos's pages last night. :)
Its good not to jump to conlusions either way, but his very first edit, moving Israel to "Zionist entity" warranted an immediate ban, regardless of any attempts to be neutral. -S-
It might be helpful -- though it is hard to say -- if someone who considers themselves generally or overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian but NPOV could write to this person explaining NPOV and what not, and explaining that contributions like that are just going to be deleted, and that a more effective way to help the cause is to contribute materials that is simple and factual and uncontroversial.
One of the advantages of NPOV is that all of us believe fervently that everyone would agree with us if only they had all the facts. So no matter what your POV, if you *really* believe in it, you will agree that simply laying out the facts, warts and all, will be sufficient to convince.
--Jimbo _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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Jimmy-
I'm convinced. Palestinian liberator is to be banned. Can someone take care of this for me?
No problem, but how about using the "revert all the bad edits of this user on sight" strategy instead of the "ban this specific pseudonym of this user" strategy as an experiment in this case? The latter strategy seems to contribute to the proliferation of fake identities which need re-banning and re-banning.
Regards,
Erik
Erik Moeller wrote:
Jimmy-
I'm convinced. Palestinian liberator is to be banned. Can someone take care of this for me?
No problem, but how about using the "revert all the bad edits of this user on sight" strategy instead of the "ban this specific pseudonym of this user" strategy as an experiment in this case? The latter strategy seems to contribute to the proliferation of fake identities which need re-banning and re-banning.
So when we see something that, upon examination, is most definitely vandalism, we revert? Never seen that approach used before :)
Jimmy-
No problem, but how about using the "revert all the bad edits of this user on sight" strategy instead of the "ban this specific pseudonym of this user" strategy as an experiment in this case? The latter strategy seems to contribute to the proliferation of fake identities which need re-banning and re-banning.
So when we see something that, upon examination, is most definitely vandalism, we revert? Never seen that approach used before :)
Well, the idea is that for a banned user, you don't really have to pay much attention to what he does -- just revert and let other people restore if it's any good. For non-banned users you have to look at each edit carefully before reverting. Sorry if that distinction wasn't clear.
Regards,
Erik
Erik Moeller wrote:
Well, the idea is that for a banned user, you don't really have to pay much attention to what he does -- just revert and let other people restore if it's any good. For non-banned users you have to look at each edit carefully before reverting. Sorry if that distinction wasn't clear.
Sorry, just couldn't pass up the chance to make a smart ass comment. As for the "let other people..." part - that's what I have tried to do with Michael's stuff for a while, and it's lead tosome minor disagreement; it may take a while for this approach to gain currency.
Jimmy O'Regan wrote:
Erik Moeller wrote:
Well, the idea is that for a banned user, you don't really have to pay much attention to what he does -- just revert and let other people restore if it's any good. For non-banned users you have to look at each edit carefully before reverting. Sorry if that distinction wasn't clear.
Sorry, just couldn't pass up the chance to make a smart ass comment. As for the "let other people..." part - that's what I have tried to do with Michael's stuff for a while, and it's lead tosome minor disagreement; it may take a while for this approach to gain currency.
I know the irresistable attraction of smart ass comments. Given the amount that's been written about PL one can only say that with friends like him the Palestinians don't need any enemies. :-)
Ec
--- Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Jimmy O'Regan wrote:
Erik Moeller wrote:
Well, the idea is that for a banned user, you
don't really have to
pay much attention to what he does -- just
revert and let other
people restore if it's any good. For non-banned
users you have to
look at each edit carefully before reverting.
Sorry if that
distinction wasn't clear.
Sorry, just couldn't pass up the chance to make a
smart ass comment.
As for the "let other people..." part - that's
what I have tried to do
with Michael's stuff for a while, and it's lead
tosome minor
disagreement; it may take a while for this
approach to gain currency.
I know the irresistable attraction of smart ass comments. Given the amount that's been written about PL one can only say that with friends like him the Palestinians don't need any enemies. :-)
Ec
To Ec: I think Jimmys point was a valid one -- namely that "banned user treatment" is not always consistent thing.
Erik wrote:
Well, the idea is that for a banned user, you
don't really have to
pay much attention to what he does -- just
revert and let other
people restore if it's any good.
I dont recall this 'practical approach' ever being codified -- it seems to me that if it *was codified, there would be some questions to deal with -- Jimmys among them.
-S-
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Erik Moeller wrote:
Jimmy-
I'm convinced. Palestinian liberator is to be banned. Can someone take care of this for me?
No problem, but how about using the "revert all the bad edits of this user on sight" strategy instead of the "ban this specific pseudonym of this user" strategy as an experiment in this case? The latter strategy seems to contribute to the proliferation of fake identities which need re-banning and re-banning.
If I'm not too late on this, then yes, I certainly approve of us experimenting with this strategy. That's a good idea. Based on past experience, there is a certain class of problem user whom we seem to only inspire to ever greater heights of problems.
--Jimbo
Oops. I retract my last post about Palistinian Liberator LDan
--- james duffy jtdirl@hotmail.com wrote:
I believe there is overwhelming evidence that this user is not interested in any way of contributing NPOV content to wikipedia but instead vandalising articles.
==Examples==
- Inserting a picture of Ariol Sharon on the
[[Penis]] page with the summary ''INSERTING PIC OF UGLY DICK SHARON''
- Inserting a picture of Sharon the the [[Feces]]
page with the summary ''SHARON IS FECES''
- Inserting a picture of a penis on the [[Ariel
Sharon]] page with the summary ''new pic looks more like him''
- replacing real headlines and texts in
[[Israeli-Palestinian conflict]] with === ZIONIST TERROR===
The Zionists are the REAL terrorists.
''and''
The Zionist entity, which the Zionists call "Israel" so that everyone forgets their crimes against the Arab nation of Palestine, is the world's biggest terrorist. Like Nazi Germany and bin Laden, this terrorist must be destroyed so that Palestine can strech from the river to the sea.
He summarised his changes as ''This site is crawling with Zionists''
- In [[Intifada]] he replaced a paragraph with the
following ''Both intifadas were originally characterized by civil disobedience by the [[Palestinians]], which escalated into the use of honorable armed insurrection. Many Palestinians, including women and children, were martyred due to the Nazi-fascist brutality of the Zionists.'' The summary he gave was ''This site is crawling with Zionists''.
- redirected [[Israel]] to <nowiki>[[Zionist
Entity]]</nowiki>. I deleted the page and restored it to its proper location, but he reinstated it, leading to a second deletion.
I do not have any problem with a pro-Palestinian viewpoint on wiki. Indeed I have been called ''pro-Arab'' and ''anti-semite'' by RK for seeking to stop his blatent pro-Israeli propagandising of some pages. Personally I do believe that wiki represents the what outside the US is seen as America's ''Israelophile'' sympathies. But it is crystal clear that this user is not trying to offer a balancing analysis of the Palestinian analysis of the Middle East problem. He is simply maliciously trying to vandalise articles. It is worth noting a similar user appeared on wiki some weeks ago propagandising articles supposedly from one viewpoint, yet whose contributions seemed nothing but vandalistic malicious nonsense, not a serious attempt at offering an alternative viewpoint. It might be worth someone checking this user's IP and comparing it to that user to see whether it is the same person. This user here clearly warrants a ban, not for his opinions but for his malicious vandalism of pages. [[User:Jtdirl|Fear�IREANN]] 12:19, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
BTW 172 summed up this user's contributions with the following, which I concur with.
I can see that you're a mature and articulate advocate of your cause, laying out very convincing arguments involving poo poo and wee wees. 172 08:20, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Since I started this page, Pl wrote on the talk page
I will stop messing with pages without permission. I will stop making rules on my page. However, I still want to be able to have others sign the list I'm starting agreeing that Zionism is racism.
I agree Zionism = racism
- user Palestine liberator
After changes, that version was posted at 13:02, 4 Aug 2003. He then followed it up 8 minutes later, at 13:10, 4 Aug 2003 with
- United States - some in the Palestinian movement
and others regard America as a puppet of the Zionists.
So much for the promised neutrality and stopping messing. This guy is simply playing games.
I have already had to protect one page that he continually reverted over and over and over again. I and others have been continually reverting other pages. A ban is /urgently/ required.
A ban page is at [[User talk:Palestinian liberator/ban]]. Please express your viewers whether here on the list or there on the page. A decision is clearly needed quickly before the scale of vandalism gets out of hand.
JT
_________________________________________________________________
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Um, yeah. I dont think we need the supreme court on this one. :)
-S-
--- james duffy jtdirl@hotmail.com wrote:
I believe there is overwhelming evidence that this user is not interested in any way of contributing NPOV content to wikipedia but instead vandalising articles.
==Examples==
- Inserting a picture of Ariol Sharon on the
[[Penis]] page with the summary ''INSERTING PIC OF UGLY DICK SHARON''
- Inserting a picture of Sharon the the [[Feces]]
page with the summary ''SHARON IS FECES''
- Inserting a picture of a penis on the [[Ariel
Sharon]] page with the summary ''new pic looks more like him''
- replacing real headlines and texts in
[[Israeli-Palestinian conflict]] with === ZIONIST TERROR===
The Zionists are the REAL terrorists.
''and''
The Zionist entity, which the Zionists call "Israel" so that everyone forgets their crimes against the Arab nation of Palestine, is the world's biggest terrorist. Like Nazi Germany and bin Laden, this terrorist must be destroyed so that Palestine can strech from the river to the sea.
He summarised his changes as ''This site is crawling with Zionists''
- In [[Intifada]] he replaced a paragraph with the
following ''Both intifadas were originally characterized by civil disobedience by the [[Palestinians]], which escalated into the use of honorable armed insurrection. Many Palestinians, including women and children, were martyred due to the Nazi-fascist brutality of the Zionists.'' The summary he gave was ''This site is crawling with Zionists''.
- redirected [[Israel]] to <nowiki>[[Zionist
Entity]]</nowiki>. I deleted the page and restored it to its proper location, but he reinstated it, leading to a second deletion.
I do not have any problem with a pro-Palestinian viewpoint on wiki. Indeed I have been called ''pro-Arab'' and ''anti-semite'' by RK for seeking to stop his blatent pro-Israeli propagandising of some pages. Personally I do believe that wiki represents the what outside the US is seen as America's ''Israelophile'' sympathies. But it is crystal clear that this user is not trying to offer a balancing analysis of the Palestinian analysis of the Middle East problem. He is simply maliciously trying to vandalise articles. It is worth noting a similar user appeared on wiki some weeks ago propagandising articles supposedly from one viewpoint, yet whose contributions seemed nothing but vandalistic malicious nonsense, not a serious attempt at offering an alternative viewpoint. It might be worth someone checking this user's IP and comparing it to that user to see whether it is the same person. This user here clearly warrants a ban, not for his opinions but for his malicious vandalism of pages. [[User:Jtdirl|Fear�IREANN]] 12:19, 4 Aug 2003
(UTC)
BTW 172 summed up this user's contributions with the following, which I concur with.
I can see that you're a mature and articulate advocate of your cause, laying out very convincing arguments involving poo poo and wee wees. 172 08:20, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Since I started this page, Pl wrote on the talk page
I will stop messing with pages without permission. I will stop making rules on my page. However, I still want to be able to have others sign the list I'm starting agreeing that Zionism is racism.
I agree Zionism = racism
- user Palestine liberator
After changes, that version was posted at 13:02, 4 Aug 2003. He then followed it up 8 minutes later, at 13:10, 4 Aug 2003 with
- United States - some in the Palestinian movement
and others regard America as a puppet of the Zionists.
So much for the promised neutrality and stopping messing. This guy is simply playing games.
I have already had to protect one page that he continually reverted over and over and over again. I and others have been continually reverting other pages. A ban is /urgently/ required.
A ban page is at [[User talk:Palestinian liberator/ban]]. Please express your viewers whether here on the list or there on the page. A decision is clearly needed quickly before the scale of vandalism gets out of hand.
JT
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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james duffy jtdirl@hotmail.com wrote:
I believe there is overwhelming evidence that this user is not interested in any way of contributing NPOV content to wikipedia but instead vandalising articles.
==Examples==
* Inserting a picture of Ariol Sharon on the [[Penis]] page with the summary ''INSERTING PIC OF UGLY DICK SHARON''
* Inserting a picture of Sharon the the [[Feces]] page with the summary ''SHARON IS FECES''
* Inserting a picture of a penis on the [[Ariel Sharon]] page with the summary ''new pic looks more like him''
* replacing real headlines and texts in [[Israeli-Palestinian conflict]] with === ZIONIST TERROR===
The Zionists are the REAL terrorists.
''and''
The Zionist entity, which the Zionists call "Israel" so that everyone forgets their crimes against the Arab nation of Palestine, is the world's biggest terrorist. Like Nazi Germany and bin Laden, this terrorist must be destroyed so that Palestine can strech from the river to the sea.
He summarised his changes as ''This site is crawling with Zionists''
* In [[Intifada]] he replaced a paragraph with the following ''Both intifadas were originally characterized by civil disobedience by the [[Palestinians]], which escalated into the use of honorable armed insurrection. Many Palestinians, including women and children, were martyred due to the Nazi-fascist brutality of the Zionists.'' The summary he gave was ''This site is crawling with Zionists''.
* redirected [[Israel]] to [[Zionist Entity]]. I deleted the page and restored it to its proper location, but he reinstated it, leading to a second deletion.
I do not have any problem with a pro-Palestinian viewpoint on wiki. Indeed I have been called ''pro-Arab'' and ''anti-semite'' by RK for seeking to stop his blatent pro-Israeli propagandising of some pages. Personally I do believe that wiki represents the what outside the US is seen as America's ''Israelophile'' sympathies. But it is crystal clear that this user is not trying to offer a balancing analysis of the Palestinian analysis of the Middle East problem. He is simply maliciously trying to vandalise articles. It is worth noting a similar user appeared on wiki some weeks ago propagandising articles supposedly from one viewpoint, yet whose contributions seemed nothing but vandalistic malicious nonsense, not a serious attempt at offering an alternative viewpoint. It might be worth someone checking this user's IP and comparing it to that user to see whether it is the same person. This user here clearly warrants a ban, not for his opinions but for his malicious vandalism of pages. [[User:Jtdirl|Fear�IREANN]] 12:19, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
BTW 172 summed up this user's contributions with the following, which I concur with.
I can see that you're a mature and articulate advocate of your cause, laying out very convincing arguments involving poo poo and wee wees. 172 08:20, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Since I started this page, Pl wrote on the talk page
I will stop messing with pages without permission. I will stop making rules on my page. However, I still want to be able to have others sign the list I'm starting agreeing that Zionism is racism.
I agree Zionism = racism
* user Palestine liberator
After changes, that version was posted at 13:02, 4 Aug 2003. He then followed it up 8 minutes later, at 13:10, 4 Aug 2003 with
* United States - some in the Palestinian movement and others regard America as a puppet of the Zionists.
So much for the promised neutrality and stopping messing. This guy is simply playing games.
I have already had to protect one page that he continually reverted over and over and over again. I and others have been continually reverting other pages. A ban is /urgently/ required.
A ban page is at [[User talk:Palestinian liberator/ban]]. Please express your viewers whether here on the list or there on the page. A decision is clearly needed quickly before the scale of vandalism gets out of hand.
JT
I was the first person to write on his Talk page, suggesting that his #REDIRECT of [[Israel]] to [[Zionist entity]] was probably NOT A GOOD THING (TM). He told he he was only going to make comments on Talk pages, although he did call me a Zionist in the process.
We can see how much his promises are worth.
RickK
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