Delirium wrote:
Vicki Rosenzweig wrote:
What I think you're actually saying is that you *refer to* people whose gender you don't know as "he". This has never been entirely standard, and will annoy quite a few people at this epoch. Using full names, "they", and workarounds like "that person", is probably a better idea.
Many people also dislike "they", because it's using plural forms (both the plural pronoun, and to be consistent, plural verbs) to refer to a single person. Those people seem to be losing that particular battle though.
well "you" is singular and plural. So why not another pronoun?
As of late I've noticed in much academic writing a preferred solution has been to simply use "she". It's not really any better than using "he" as far as correctness goes, but people are less likely to complain about it being sexist,
well the trick with using "she" is to use "she" AND "he" approximately equally. Just pick one at random!
I do find it somewhat jarring when I read it though, as I'm used to "she" being used to refer to people who are actually female, so it takes me a minute to realize from context that it's being used as a generic pronoun.
now you know how female readers feel.... ;-)
Personally, where workable I use s/he. In articles, I use the gender used in primary documents if there is a primary document, and the gender of the office-holder when talking specifically. On when writing about the President of Ireland, as the Irish contitution uses 'he' I use it when talking theoretically about the office, she/her etc when writing in practice about the office as the current president is female. And a small note or footnote to explain usage so no-one reads any gender agenda between using either form and to avoid confusion. I have found in writing newspaper articles books etc that it works well once people know why things are in that form.
JT
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This may be taking it over the edge, but my female English teacher in high school taught me this: The correct grammatical way to refer to someone of unknown sex as he. When asked if this bothered her, she said "no, it is just proper English." While I personally agree with this philosophy, it is quite evident that some people in the pedia think it is sexist, and are bothered by it. I will make every effort to address someone by their true sex, or use their name, but when it come down to it, I will use the grammar I was taught, since there will never be a consensus on this, since any method is non-NPOV.
-- Michael Becker
-----Original Message----- From: wikien-l-admin@wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-admin@wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of james duffy Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5.10 To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] WikiWomen (was Partial deletion)
Delirium wrote:
Vicki Rosenzweig wrote:
What I think you're actually saying is that you *refer to* people whose gender you don't know as "he". This has never been entirely standard, and
will
annoy quite a few people at this epoch. Using full names, "they", and workarounds like "that person", is probably a better idea.
Many people also dislike "they", because it's using plural forms (both
the plural pronoun, and to be consistent, plural verbs) to refer to a
single
person. Those people seem to be losing that particular battle though.
well "you" is singular and plural. So why not another pronoun?
As of late I've noticed in much academic writing a preferred solution has been to simply use "she". It's not really any better than using "he"
as
far as correctness goes, but people are less likely to complain about
it
being sexist,
well the trick with using "she" is to use "she" AND "he" approximately equally. Just pick one at random!
I do find it somewhat jarring when I read it though, as I'm used to "she" being used to refer to people who are actually female, so it takes me
a
minute to realize from context that it's being used as a generic
pronoun.
now you know how female readers feel.... ;-)
Personally, where workable I use s/he. In articles, I use the gender used in primary documents if there is a primary document, and the gender of the office-holder when talking specifically. On when writing about the President of Ireland, as the Irish contitution uses 'he' I use it when talking theoretically about the office, she/her etc when writing in practice about the office as the current president is female. And a small note or footnote to explain usage so no-one reads any gender agenda between using either form and to avoid confusion. I have found in writing newspaper articles books etc that it works well once people know why things are in that form.
JT
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