--- ultrablue@gmail.com wrote:

So you got a 24 hour block for 3RR. Get over it and move on. For someone who so freely gives out 24 hour blocks for rule violations, you don't seem to like the rules being enforced against yourself. Hopefully when you come back (in 24 hours) you will be less willing to engage in block/unblock wars, which I'm sure everyone agrees are not a good thing.

~Mark Ryan

I won't be back.

RickK

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On 6/20/05, JAY JG jayjg@hotmail.com wrote:

...

From: Rick giantsrick13@yahoo.com

Silsor has blocked me from editing. I will not accede to this. I am leaving the project and will not be back.

I hope this is not true.

I, too, hope this is not true.

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Rebecca wrote:

I swear, this whole discussion is making me want to follow you out of Wikipedia.

I have no idea why we tolerate this growing group of idiots who just camp out on wikien-l and VFD with some sort of problem with authority. I just saw one of them (who has barely made any edits to the main namespace in the last fortnight) seriously suggest that admins should be desysopped for as little as a snide remark. I'm getting really sick of this.

-- ambi

Ooh ooh, was it me? I'm pretty certain I've already made someone else's hitlist:

Also, someone said something about the cabal choosing the cabal when it comes to RFA. Personally, I find this ridiculous. The only reason admins are voting, is because they are already trusted and have the experience to see who makes a good admin. Besides, admins make up 1% of the Wikipedia population at most, if you made some effort to involve other users, you could easily have more non-admins join in such discussion. -Mgm

Go ahead, make my day. Block me. For a week :)

- -- Alphax OpenPGP key: 0xF874C613 - http://tinyurl.com/cc9up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.' - C. S. Lewis

On 6/21/05, blankfaze blankfaze@gmail.com wrote:

I hear you, ambi. Seems like each day this place and the people here make me want to be here less and less. So much hostility, incompetence, malice... It's not like it used to be, that's for sure.

Sounds like a management problem to me. What's changed between "the good old days" and now?

Rebecca wrote:

I swear, this whole discussion is making me want to follow you out of Wikipedia.

I have no idea why we tolerate this growing group of idiots who just camp out on wikien-l and VFD with some sort of problem with authority. I just saw one of them (who has barely made any edits to the main namespace in the last fortnight) seriously suggest that admins should be desysopped for as little as a snide remark. I'm getting really sick of this.

Sorry, I should have read Alphax's post more closely before hastily agreeing to part of it. Of course admins do a great job, they're dedicated to Wikipedia and passionate about its cause, for the most part they stick to the rules and strive for community consensus in everything they do. There have been cases where admins have violated policy, lashing out in the heat of the moment, and I think those cases call for punishment in proportion to the crime.

In this particular case, I don't think Silsor is guilty of any crime apart from bruising a fragile ego.

-- Tim Starling

What's the alternative -- start banning people indiscriminantly who act anti-social? I can tell you, if you think people are hostile now...

If you're getting sick of it, take a break for a week. Stop reading the mailing list. Keep out of VFD. Etc. Because in a collective project of this sort -- one which doesn't have the "entrance fee" that a collective programming project does -- you're going to get nutzos out the wazoo. There's no other way around it. Better be ready for it. Better find ways to cope.

Either that, or leave in a huff. Whatever gets you through the day. I don't think any of us are being paid for this -- we're here by choice. So exercise it if you must. You'd be missed for a week or two and then you'd be like all of the other Missing Wikipedians. This is not a project about individual people or personalities, it is about collective effort. We all do our part, and we're all replaceable. Even Jimbo. That's why it is such an interesting and provocative idea. I tell academics about this project -- academia being pretty much an antithesis in many ways -- and they say (actual quote here), "That sounds insane." They're right. That's why it's a good idea.

But be realistic about it. The more popular Wikipedia becomes, the more newspaper and magazines it is covered in, the more it becomes a big lightbulb in the forest drawing all sorts of bugs to it. Some of them are good contributors. Some of them are not. There's no quick and fair way to distinguish between the two, and dispensing admin justice left and right is just going to end up with MORE people camping around trying to disrupt things, not less.

There's a "Chinese proverb" I read somewhere which goes: "All people are brothers. So expect trouble."

FF

On 6/21/05, Rebecca misfitgirl@gmail.com wrote:

I swear, this whole discussion is making me want to follow you out of Wikipedia.

I have no idea why we tolerate this growing group of idiots who just camp out on wikien-l and VFD with some sort of problem with authority. I just saw one of them (who has barely made any edits to the main namespace in the last fortnight) seriously suggest that admins should be desysopped for as little as a snide remark. I'm getting really sick of this.

-- ambi _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

Anyway, I suspect that the current "problems" aren't really particularly worse than they used to be back in the "golden age". I've been here almost since the beginning and there have always been these sorts of acrimonious arguments about who's being mean to whom. Personally, I suspect there have been worse periods in Wikipedia's past; I don't have any statistics or anything but just anecdotally I don't think I'm seeing as much bad behavior lately as I can recall in some previous episodes. I credit the ArbCom's actions for much of that, again just based on personal opinion.

Oh no, let me rephrase. I don't think there was necessarily a "golden age" when we didn't have problems with antisocial users - we've always had that. I think the last few months have generally been the best period we've had, as we finally got rid of the obvious ones (i.e. Lir). Lately, though, this list seems to be taken up with a growing number of people who seem to take care not to break any bannable rules, but whose contributions to Wikipedia seem to consist entirely of trying to persecute admins (or hanging out on VFD). It's like the Red Faction all over again - except considerably more subtle.

-- ambi

Ah, I see. I don't have a clear enough intuitive grasp of the frequency to agree or disagree, but that does seem plausible to me; Wikipedia's developing immune system has been forcing troublemakers to evolve into new forms. I guess I'm just lucky I haven't run afoul of the new breed much. :)

Hang around the 3RR reporting page some time. Edit warriours have largely adapted to deal with that now. more advance forms of technical vandalism tend not to do so well since for the most part they are delt with quickly by developers.