Charle Podle is making things up. I did *not* make my name public. EntmootsOfTrolls did, shortly before he theartened to give my identity to Islamic extremists. (Groups that at the time and now, were infamous for murdering those that they disagreed with.)
Mr Natural Health didn't threaten to give me up to Islamists; he coldly told me that he himself was a Nazi, and that he lived near me. That's the same as sending an e-mail to a black in the south that you are a member of the KKK. Its called an implicit threat, and the local police departments take such threats seriously, even if certain Wiki-En members do not.
I am not about to sit back and wait for anyone else to do the same. In the past, it was considered wrong for Wikipedia users to "out" people and put such private information out for others to read. But now that it has happened to me twice, you'd think that people would stop such behaviour? No, instead, Charles wrote falsehoods about me, and ignores the point. I wonder how he would react if someone was bothering one of his friends or loved ones? Oh wait, that's different. As long as it is someone else who is outed and who feels threatened, that's Ok?
No. Its morally wrong when it happens to anyone. It is also a violation of every norm of Wikipedia etiquette, which this list seems to have suddenly forgotten about. It is also probably illegal.
The fact that not a single person here seems to care scares the hell out of me. If it can be done to one person, it can be done to any of us. (Just ask some of the many well-documented victims of the Internet Scientology wars, who have been threatened, stalked, and whose lives have been damaged by maniancs from the Church of Scientology.) This isn't a theoretical issue; its real.
Robert (RK)
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Robert wrote:
The fact that not a single person here seems to care scares the hell out of me. If it can be done to one person, it can be done to any of us. (Just ask some of the many well-documented victims of the Internet Scientology wars, who have been threatened, stalked, and whose lives have been damaged by maniancs from the Church of Scientology.) This isn't a theoretical issue; its real.
You kind of lost all your support and credibility when you called all of us Nazis, and failed to apologize for it subsequently. Why then would anybody pay attention to anything you have to say?
Stan
Stan Shebs wrote:
Robert wrote:
The fact that not a single person here seems to care scares the hell out of me. If it can be done to one person, it can be done to any of us. (Just ask some of the many well-documented victims of the Internet Scientology wars, who have been threatened, stalked, and whose lives have been damaged by maniancs from the Church of Scientology.) This isn't a theoretical issue; its real.
You kind of lost all your support and credibility when you called all of us Nazis, and failed to apologize for it subsequently. Why then would anybody pay attention to anything you have to say?
Stan
Well... I *do* care. Yes, Robert said wrong things and should have apogized later. Yes, Robert gave his name himself, so it is not outing. But, I do care that someone feels he is threatened in his real life because of his wikipedia activity.
Anthere wrote
But, I do care that someone feels he is threatened in his real life because of his wikipedia activity.
I care too. I care less for the following reasons (a) crying wolf (b) I knew the name, without specially wanting to (c) past UseNet prominence, and the one that is also in need of a mention: bullies - and I have a deep hatred of that type - would obviously use a certain type of threat with a certain type of person. What can be done, should be.
Charles
Anthere wrote:
Stan Shebs wrote:
Robert wrote:
The fact that not a single person here seems to care scares the hell out of me. If it can be done to one person, it can be done to any of us. (Just ask some of the many well-documented victims of the Internet Scientology wars, who have been threatened, stalked, and whose lives have been damaged by maniancs from the Church of Scientology.) This isn't a theoretical issue; its real.
You kind of lost all your support and credibility when you called all of us Nazis, and failed to apologize for it subsequently. Why then would anybody pay attention to anything you have to say?
Stan
Well... I *do* care. Yes, Robert said wrong things and should have apogized later. Yes, Robert gave his name himself, so it is not outing. But, I do care that someone feels he is threatened in his real life because of his wikipedia activity.
He *says* he feels threatened, but given his track record of abuse, bullying, and misrepresentation, I'll bet a dollar he doesn't really feel threatened at all - I think he's just using this as a technique to fish for sympathy from the gullible.
If I genuinely felt threatened, I would go to the police, not post lengthy complaining emails to a public mailing list, where there is not one single person who has any power or capability to protect me from an actual would-be criminal. It's not like WPers are going to fly over from Australia or wherever, arm themselves, and stand guard at my front door.
Stan
Stan Shebs wrote:
Anthere wrote:
Stan Shebs wrote:
Robert wrote:
The fact that not a single person here seems to care scares the hell out of me. If it can be done to one person, it can be done to any of us. (Just ask some of the many well-documented victims of the Internet Scientology wars, who have been threatened, stalked, and whose lives have been damaged by maniancs from the Church of Scientology.) This isn't a theoretical issue; its real.
You kind of lost all your support and credibility when you called all of us Nazis, and failed to apologize for it subsequently. Why then would anybody pay attention to anything you have to say?
Stan
Well... I *do* care. Yes, Robert said wrong things and should have apogized later. Yes, Robert gave his name himself, so it is not outing. But, I do care that someone feels he is threatened in his real life because of his wikipedia activity.
He *says* he feels threatened, but given his track record of abuse, bullying, and misrepresentation, I'll bet a dollar he doesn't really feel threatened at all - I think he's just using this as a technique to fish for sympathy from the gullible.
If I genuinely felt threatened, I would go to the police, not post lengthy complaining emails to a public mailing list, where there is not one single person who has any power or capability to protect me from an actual would-be criminal. It's not like WPers are going to fly over from Australia or wherever, arm themselves, and stand guard at my front door.
Stan
I think that whether an editor is a good standing one in the community or not, as soon as we accept them as editors, we should held similar standards. If we just stick to facts, I'd say a threat stays a threat whoever receive it. In front of two users threatened, I do not think it is correct to help one and to be rude to the other.
So, I am glad of the AC decision.
--- Robert rkscience100@yahoo.com wrote:
Charle Podle is making things up.
Charle*s* Podle*s*. Please. And now that you've outed me by using my real name, you must be banned immediately!!!eleven!!! :)
I did *not* make my name public. EntmootsOfTrolls
did <snip>
So what about these messages, sent to a public mailing list by "Robert K*****" and signed as "RK"?
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2002-December/008259.html http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2002-December/008294.html http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2002-December/008319.html http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2002-December/008329.html
I suppose EntmootsOfTrolls hijacked your account and sent those e-mails. He's a tricksy one, he is.
<snip> Robert wrote:
Charles wrote falsehoods about me, and ignores the point. I wonder how he would react if someone was bothering one of his friends or loved ones? Oh wait, that's different. As long as it is someone else who is outed and who feels threatened, that's Ok?
I still don't see how using a name you revealed in a public forum is in any way a "threat" or "outing". Perhaps you can explain?
No. Its morally wrong when it happens to anyone. It is also a violation of every norm of Wikipedia etiquette, which this list seems to have suddenly forgotten about. It is also probably illegal.
Using names which people themselves revealed is a violation of every norm of Wikipedia etiquette?
So I suppose I should stop addressing every Wikipedian who uses their real name by that selfsame real name, lest I be banned, eh.
As to the legality of using a name someone revealed of his own free will---I'm not a lawyer, so I won't comment on that.
--Charles Podles ([[en:user:Mirv]])
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--- Robert rkscience100@yahoo.com wrote:
Charle Podle is making things up. I did *not* make my name public. EntmootsOfTrolls did, shortly before he theartened to give my identity to Islamic extremists. (Groups that at the time and now, were infamous for murdering those that they disagreed with.)
RK, on several occasions I've seen your real name in the from field in messages sent to this list. You 'outed' yourself. But EoT and his sockpuppets are already banned.
Mr Natural Health didn't threaten to give me up to Islamists; he coldly told me that he himself was a Nazi, and that he lived near me. That's the same as sending an e-mail to a black in the south that you are a member of the KKK. Its called an implicit threat, and the local police departments take such threats seriously, even if certain Wiki-En members do not.
Arbitration of Mr Natural Health is proceeding. It looks like he is going to get another long ban again for doing the type of thing you are complaining about. In the future we will be using initial rulings to stop people from continuing to harm the community while arbitration is on-going. What we really need are more people to volunteer for the committee and to actually let admins enforce our policies.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
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