Message: 11 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:15:41 -0800 (PST) From: Zoe zoecomnena@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re. Susan Mason, I'm not clear what the problem is To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Reply-To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org
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How many freaking times do we have to go over this? Zoe
Well I'm quite new to this mailing list, so forgive my ignorance, but it seems that alot goes on 'behind the scenes' of wikipedia here, so again I'll repeat my question, what did Lir do that made them so utterly iredeemable (this is a genuine question, not rhetoric), and what is so wrong with Susan Mason's edits? I just did a random trawl through a selection of SM's contributions and they seem basically OK to me. She is alot more useful, constructive and coherent than Micheal who is a complete nuisance who has to be cleaned up after all the time (not that I want him banned either).
If Zoe doesn't have the patience to explain what is obviously utter crystal clear to everybody else perhaps somebody else could spare a few seconds, thanks,
Graham (Quercus Robur)
I'm not one who was part of the Lir/Vera/Susan dispute, & I'll admit that I'm ignorant of many of the more subtle & minor details of this issue, but there are 3 very important points here that means the person who is Lir/Vera/Susan will remain banned from Wikipedia for the foreseeable future:
1) Jimmy Wales has stated that Lir/Vera/Susan is banned. And despite what the rest of us may think, as long as Jimmy is paying for the server & the bandwidth, he calls the rules. If you don't like that fact, then come up with enough money so that Wikipedia won't come to a sudden end if Jimmy decides to (literally) pull the plug & spend his money on something he finds more rewarding.
(And I must needs add here that Jimmy is far more laid back & understanding than I would ever be in his situation. One does not accidentally piss off Jimmy -- one must make a concerted effort to do so.)
2) There have been a number of efforts to get Lir/Vera/Susan to discuss his/her reasons for his/her actions or opinions. The one that made the most definite impression on me was when Ed Poor, who had been in private discussion with Lir/Vera/Susan, tried to get him/her to discuss his/her viewpoint with the peopel on this mailling list. And Lir/Vera/Susan abruptly decided to be silent.
Now I'll admit that sometimes I'm struck dumb when I want to provide a defense for my actions, but this was one of those ``put up or shut up" moments: either Lir/Vera/Susan offered some kind of explanation for his/her acts, or stopped entirely, out of shame or embarassment for being unable to justify them. Lir/Vera/Susan has done neither.
3) Lastly, there are a lot of people here on Wikipedia who, frankly speaking, consider Lir/Vera/Susan to be an asshole. Why would anyone want to hang around a group of people who think she/he is an asshole? Wikipedia is not the only game in town: there's the everything2 & the h2g2 projects. Lir/Vera/Susan could join either of those, & prove he/she has reformed & is capable of making valuable contributions there.
Now comes Zoe with her question:
How many freaking times do we have to go over this?
Unfortunately, as many times as Lir/Vera/Susan returns to Wikipedia with a new name, & as many times as we have new contributors. Perhaps we need an FAQ or similar document to help reduce the number of questions about this unique individual.
Geoff