Range blocks are ridiculous overkill.
Hey let's black out Illinois just for the fun of it! See if anyone complains!
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He uses proxies, rangeblocks won't help. - Chris
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:25 AM, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
Range blocks are ridiculous overkill.
Hey let's black out Illinois just for the fun of it! See if anyone complains!
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Do we not yet hav a policy regarding open proxies (relays)? I would think that anonymizer.com and anything like it is blocked indefinitely. hotmail and gmail blocked anonymizer.com. Why should we not? As a jeneral rule, open relays for e-mail are listed and blocked, so as a jeneral rule, mail relays only serve congestion physics and paying users. _______ No one can abuse you without your permission. --Ann Landers
"Christopher Grant" chrisgrantmail@gmail.com wrote in message news:725b770d0901151828j6c7d87ffkb90d5a52288d86d7@mail.gmail.com...
He uses proxies, rangeblocks won't help.
- Chris
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:25 AM, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
Range blocks are ridiculous overkill.
Hey let's black out Illinois just for the fun of it! See if anyone complains!
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! ( http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http... cemailfooterNO62http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62 ) _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 4:47 AM, brewhaha%40edmc.net brewhaha@edmc.netwrote:
Do we not yet hav a policy regarding open proxies (relays)? I would think that anonymizer.com and anything like it is blocked indefinitely. hotmail and gmail blocked anonymizer.com. Why should we not? As a jeneral rule, open relays for e-mail are listed and blocked, so as a jeneral rule, mail relays only serve congestion physics and paying users.
Yes, we do have a rule. We also have a rule against vandalism. Hanson does not care for rules. Anonymizer.com is just one proxy. There are thousands of proxies. He also edits through a normal ISP. We can't range block that; it would be impractical.
I hav dynamic IP, myself, and it seems that typically, I get the same IP I had last time if it is available, and it is always within the same 64k block. What is more impractical is the manpower demanded by what we are doing now, which is blocking one IP# at a time.
"Al Tally" majorly.wiki@googlemail.com wrote in message news:7c865bab0901152055r26e14a02r8bbb19127b7184d9@mail.gmail.com...
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 4:47 AM, brewhaha%40edmc.net brewhaha@edmc.netwrote:
Do we not yet hav a policy regarding open proxies (relays)? I would think that anonymizer.com and anything like it is blocked indefinitely. hotmail and gmail blocked anonymizer.com. Why should we not? As a jeneral rule, open relays for e-mail are listed and blocked, so as a jeneral rule, mail relays only serve congestion physics and paying users.
Yes, we do have a rule. We also have a rule against vandalism. Hanson does not care for rules. Anonymizer.com is just one proxy. There are thousands of proxies. He also edits through a normal ISP. We can't range block that; it would be impractical.
-- Alex (User:Majorly) _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
The problem is not so much that he edits from a range as much as he abuses proxies.
If you don't know, proxies are a way to appear as if you are posting from a different address. So in reality a determined person like grawp can continue to use unblocked proxies until we block them all. ( Blocking *all* proxies is nigh on impossible because computers get comprimised daily... So new "open proxies" are created daily.) In theory as long as grawp has the motivation, he can keep this game up indefinitely, until he is stopped by someone offline (police, parents) or until we have working programs that reliably detect his behavior and undoes it without human assistance.
If it were just the one range we would have blocked it long ago, but it is not.
On 1/18/09, brewhaha%40edmc.net brewhaha@edmc.net wrote:
I hav dynamic IP, myself, and it seems that typically, I get the same IP I had last time if it is available, and it is always within the same 64k block. What is more impractical is the manpower demanded by what we are doing now, which is blocking one IP# at a time.
"Al Tally" majorly.wiki@googlemail.com wrote in message news:7c865bab0901152055r26e14a02r8bbb19127b7184d9@mail.gmail.com...
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 4:47 AM, brewhaha%40edmc.net brewhaha@edmc.netwrote:
Do we not yet hav a policy regarding open proxies (relays)? I would think that anonymizer.com and anything like it is blocked indefinitely. hotmail and gmail blocked anonymizer.com. Why should we not? As a jeneral rule, open relays for e-mail are listed and blocked, so as a jeneral rule, mail relays only serve congestion physics and paying users.
Yes, we do have a rule. We also have a rule against vandalism. Hanson does not care for rules. Anonymizer.com is just one proxy. There are thousands of proxies. He also edits through a normal ISP. We can't range block that; it would be impractical.
-- Alex (User:Majorly) _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
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With all due respect, you appear to have no idea what you're talking about.
Nathan
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:47 PM, brewhaha%40edmc.net brewhaha@edmc.netwrote:
Do we not yet hav a policy regarding open proxies (relays)? I would think that anonymizer.com and anything like it is blocked indefinitely. hotmail and gmail blocked anonymizer.com. Why should we not? As a jeneral rule, open relays for e-mail are listed and blocked, so as a jeneral rule, mail relays only serve congestion physics and paying users. _______ No one can abuse you without your permission. --Ann Landers
In my experience these kinds of problems need to be dealt with firmly, with a minimum of collateral damage, but in a reactive way that tells the vandal that they can't in general win, in no uncertain terms.
Messing around with proxy blocks and filters and stuff- it's much too brittle, it's probably never going to work.
I think the easiest and most effective way to handle this GRAWP issue is just to temporarily increase the account age requirement for page moves to (say) 6 months on the wikipedia, and make any account less recent than that go through an admin.
If it puts him out of business he'll probably get bored and stop.
In a few weeks we could try reducing it again, and if he starts back up, raise it again promptly.
The point is, there is no way around that; he can't win. Even if he ages accounts we just raise the requirement, wait a while, and then lower it again. Rinse, lather, repeat. The point is to give them the idea that they're up against an implacable obstacle; which... they are.
Grawp doesn't just do page moves. Also good luck finding consensus for such a change. - Chris
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Ian Woollard ian.woollard@gmail.comwrote:
In my experience these kinds of problems need to be dealt with firmly, with a minimum of collateral damage, but in a reactive way that tells the vandal that they can't in general win, in no uncertain terms.
Messing around with proxy blocks and filters and stuff- it's much too brittle, it's probably never going to work.
I think the easiest and most effective way to handle this GRAWP issue is just to temporarily increase the account age requirement for page moves to (say) 6 months on the wikipedia, and make any account less recent than that go through an admin.
If it puts him out of business he'll probably get bored and stop.
In a few weeks we could try reducing it again, and if he starts back up, raise it again promptly.
The point is, there is no way around that; he can't win. Even if he ages accounts we just raise the requirement, wait a while, and then lower it again. Rinse, lather, repeat. The point is to give them the idea that they're up against an implacable obstacle; which... they are.
-- -Ian Woollard
We live in an imperfectly imperfect world. Life in a perfectly imperfect world would be much better.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GRAWPTHEGIANT07 BTW, since this guy has been confirmed as LtWinters, then my suspicion that he is grawp is also confirmed. I will look for the template for placing that suspicion, because I am not sure that the same people are looking at the same records. I see no reason why a different vandal would use the name of a chased vandal. For that matter, there are three spellings of Psychonaut, and the simple one is still active for some reason.
The problem with increasing the account age requirements for moving a page is that it penalizes ALL NEW USERS, not just those with verizon who *might* be personally affected, and only at an inconvenience. There are ways around it and I do not see that Grawp is using them extensively. I see one obvious range on his checkuser page that probably *was* blocked. Verizon is big and no RFC that I know of concerns how IP numbers are allotted. The blocks he has direct access to might concern a district or an entire city. Serious editors with an account on wikipedia are only about one in ten thousand.
The advantage to blocking verizon, 64k at a time according to their whois records, is that we might actually get a response from them, saying, yes, he is with us, yes, we do hav a policy problem concerning him, and we are concerning his mother. They hav a policy regarding unwanted communication. All they need is feedback from their own users to get it enforced. I do not really *know* that they ignored previous e-mails from me. I suspect that they might actually pay attention to fifty.
"collateral damage" is too strong of a military euphemism for unintended death. Please use "unintended delays" or "requring rudimentarily confirmed channels", because that is all that is entailed.
"Ian Woollard" ian.woollard@gmail.com wrote in message news:781c50250901152204q733764aayc1d2758c0201a72f@mail.gmail.com...
In my experience these kinds of problems need to be dealt with firmly, with a minimum of collateral damage, but in a reactive way that tells the vandal that they can't in general win, in no uncertain terms.
Messing around with proxy blocks and filters and stuff- it's much too brittle, it's probably never going to work.
I think the easiest and most effective way to handle this GRAWP issue is just to temporarily increase the account age requirement for page moves to (say) 6 months on the wikipedia, and make any account less recent than that go through an admin.
If it puts him out of business he'll probably get bored and stop.
In a few weeks we could try reducing it again, and if he starts back up, raise it again promptly.
The point is, there is no way around that; he can't win. Even if he ages accounts we just raise the requirement, wait a while, and then lower it again. Rinse, lather, repeat. The point is to give them the idea that they're up against an implacable obstacle; which... they are.
-- -Ian Woollard
We live in an imperfectly imperfect world. Life in a perfectly imperfect world would be much better.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I hav seen the SpamAssasin configuration of Tera-Byte internet. I do not remember where it is, and I could ask them again. It did not contain much in the way of content scans, except for SMTP validity. It contained a *lot* of Realtime-Block-List ratings a year or two ago. Open relays are a closed topic (for me) in news:/news.admin.net-abuse.email (probably not on gmane). None are on my part of the internet. So, for that matter, is Paul Vixie's initial declaration that he does not want spam-friendly sites talking to him with *any* protocol. Since that time, I hav tried to use Trend MicroSystems RBL, to no effect--too many hoops, too little feedback. I make submissons to http://www.rfc-ignorant.org It probably costs them fourty thousand a year to be around.
There may indeed be thousands of proxies on the internet. Their main purpose is screening porn from children in the way of Net Nanny, but more dynamically and reliably. _______ No one can abuse you without your permission. --Ann Landers That's an empowering lie. It usually does not serve you to remember exceptions. Either that or it pays you to make it true.
"Nathan" nawrich@gmail.com wrote in message news:7e948df10901152056q7414db7ase6ef1e887780223e@mail.gmail.com...
With all due respect, you appear to have no idea what you're talking about.
Nathan
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:47 PM, brewhaha%40edmc.net brewhaha@edmc.netwrote:
Do we not yet hav a policy regarding open proxies (relays)? I would think that anonymizer.com and anything like it is blocked indefinitely. hotmail and gmail blocked anonymizer.com. Why should we not? As a jeneral rule, open relays for e-mail are listed and blocked, so as a jeneral rule, mail relays only serve congestion physics and paying users. _______ No one can abuse you without your permission. --Ann Landers
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