Message: 1 Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:58:29 -0700 From: Matt Brown morven@gmail.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Recent goings-on To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: 42f90dc005053022581c5bcaf0@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It's very hard for someone like Enviroknot to gain any sympathy when they are obviously, blatantly lying. The odds that two unrelated people would get the same IP address and decide to edit the same Wikipedia articles one after the other are vanishingly slim. If Enviroknot is not the same person as KaintheScion/ElKabong - something I personally doubt - the two of them are very closely related. Yet Enviroknot denies even that.
Someone who dives into Wikipedia and instantly goes to a contentious article is either a sockpuppet or someone who is responding to a call to arms by someone else. Someone who instantly knows all the rules and how to skirt them is not some innocent.
-Matt (User:Morven)
Morven makes some pretty good points. Enviroknot is apparently up to no good. All the same, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be given the rights to due process of law before banning him.
"Richard Rabinowitz" wrote
Enviroknot is apparently up to no good. All the same, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be given the rights to due process of law before banning him.
Except of course under policy. Could you manage not to feed the troll? We get plenty of applications to this list to have blocks lifted - a fair few of which are successful. They tend not to be those who lash out, but those genuinely puzzled (sometimes rightly) at 'goings-on'.
Charles
Richard Rabinowitz said:
-Matt (User:Morven)
Morven makes some pretty good points. Enviroknot is apparently up to no good. All the same, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be given the rights to due process of law before banning him.
We don't, or shouldn't, give aggressive trolls due process. Or the right to troll this mailing list. I'm not at all happy that, rather than indefinitely ban this troll, Arbcom has decided to take on his case. This can only give him more opportunity to troll.
On 5/31/05, Tony Sidaway minorityreport@bluebottle.com wrote:
We don't, or shouldn't, give aggressive trolls due process. Or the right to troll this mailing list. I'm not at all happy that, rather than indefinitely ban this troll, Arbcom has decided to take on his case. This can only give him more opportunity to troll.
But without due process we can not determine if someone is a Troll or if they were actually wronged. You can't escape providing due process.
You can avoid providing an undue degree of fairness... due process and no more.
It seems like that's what we are doing now, telling him to buzzoff the list as we've given him his due 15 minutes... So I guess the system is working in this case.
Gregory Maxwell said:
But without due process we can not determine if someone is a Troll or if they were actually wronged. You can't escape providing due process.
Well the minute he started in on the trolling I think it's fair to say he was not just some innocent user who had been wronged. He's the most blatant troll I've ever seen and the fact that he's still permitted to edit wikipedia with impunity some three weeks after being clearly identified, and is also being allowed to troll this mailing list, is in my opinion a grave failure of the system. He has maliciously wounded Wikipedia with nearly every one of his edits and he has apparently been given explicit permission to carry on doing it.
"Maliciously wounded"???
I'd like to see some evidence of that. I've done nothing of the sort.
-Enviroknot
From: "Tony Sidaway" minorityreport@bluebottle.com Reply-To: minorityreport@bluebottle.com,English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: recent goings-on Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 02:02:09 +0100 (BST)
Gregory Maxwell said:
But without due process we can not determine if someone is a Troll or if they were actually wronged. You can't escape providing due process.
Well the minute he started in on the trolling I think it's fair to say he was not just some innocent user who had been wronged. He's the most blatant troll I've ever seen and the fact that he's still permitted to edit wikipedia with impunity some three weeks after being clearly identified, and is also being allowed to troll this mailing list, is in my opinion a grave failure of the system. He has maliciously wounded Wikipedia with nearly every one of his edits and he has apparently been given explicit permission to carry on doing it.
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On 6/1/05, Cranston Snord wikipediaisstupid@hotmail.com wrote:
"Maliciously wounded"???
I'd like to see some evidence of that. I've done nothing of the sort.
How about your email address for starters?
Cranston Snord stated for the record:
"Maliciously wounded"???
I'd like to see some evidence of that. I've done nothing of the sort.
-Enviroknot
Indeed, don't give him too much credit. The malice is there; the capability is lacking.