This is related to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Limited-access_roads . Necessary background is that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited-access_road is an ambiguous term: "It can mean anything from a city street to which the maintaining authority limits driveway access to a freeway (or other equivalent terms)."
The category was originally created at "Freeways" and listed for renaming to "Freeways and motorways": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_Marc... This discussion has little input, and ends up renaming it to "Limited-access roads" (though there doesn't seem to be definite consensus for that, going back and reading it). No one mentions there that "limited-access road" is ambiguous.
I come across the category a while after and realize that it was renamed and that that renaming was a mistake. I list it for renaming back to "Freeways" and clearly explain why other options won't work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_July... Most people end up supporting "Freeways and motorways"; very few support keeping "Limited-access roads". Yet it is closed as no consensus by one of those editors.
I take it to DRV: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2006... It is relisted, mainly because of who it was closed by. So it goes on for another week: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_July... A few more people comment. Again there is rough consensus to rename to "Freeways and motorways", and again it is closed as no consensus. I take it to DRV again, where the closer admits he counted votes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2006_July_20#Cate...
So even though almost no one now supports the name "Limited-access roads", including several who also commented in the original CFD, it is kept there because of a vote-counter. I fail to see why we have chosen to operate this way - there is certainly not consensus to keep it there. If I choose to ignore all rules I will probably be banned for violating my probation against "provocative edits". But the current name does not correctly describe the purpose of the category.
On 20/07/06, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
So even though almost no one now supports the name "Limited-access roads", including several who also commented in the original CFD, it is kept there because of a vote-counter. I fail to see why we have chosen to operate this way - there is certainly not consensus to keep it there. If I choose to ignore all rules I will probably be banned for violating my probation against "provocative edits". But the current name does not correctly describe the purpose of the category.
I didn't understand why you didn't just move the category until that mention of "provocative edits". I'd happily move the category for you, if no one objects?
I just reread the discussion and have realised that there are more opposes and alternate suggestions (High-speed roadways) than originally suggested.
It'd probably be a good idea to move it from "Limited-access roads" but I'm not sure what to. "High-speed roadways" is a problem in that some rural lanes in Texas have higher speed limits than interstates (as someone mentions in the discussion). "Freeway and motorway" is problematic because these are just two examples of what these structures are named.
How about something like "High-throughput roadways"?
Oldak Quill wrote:
I just reread the discussion and have realised that there are more opposes and alternate suggestions (High-speed roadways) than originally suggested.
It'd probably be a good idea to move it from "Limited-access roads" but I'm not sure what to. "High-speed roadways" is a problem in that some rural lanes in Texas have higher speed limits than interstates (as someone mentions in the discussion). "Freeway and motorway" is problematic because these are just two examples of what these structures are named.
How about something like "High-throughput roadways"?
There are ten-lane surface roads and two-lane freeways. This is a category of freeways - highways with full control of access and no cross traffic. The bit about not all places using that term is not a problem, as we have to choose a term, and no one has put forth an alternate term. A Category:Elevators would include elevators where they are called lifts.
On 20/07/06, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
There are ten-lane surface roads and two-lane freeways. This is a category of freeways - highways with full control of access and no cross traffic. The bit about not all places using that term is not a problem, as we have to choose a term, and no one has put forth an alternate term. A Category:Elevators would include elevators where they are called lifts.
Why don't you just call it "Category:Highways with full control of access and no cross traffic"? It sounds less Americanocentric than "Freeways".
Oldak Quill wrote:
On 20/07/06, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
There are ten-lane surface roads and two-lane freeways. This is a category of freeways - highways with full control of access and no cross traffic. The bit about not all places using that term is not a problem, as we have to choose a term, and no one has put forth an alternate term. A Category:Elevators would include elevators where they are called lifts.
Why don't you just call it "Category:Highways with full control of access and no cross traffic"? It sounds less Americanocentric than "Freeways".
I did suggest that - I even moved [[freeway]] there - and, well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Freeway#This_has_to_be_he_most_inappropria...
G'day OQ,
On 20/07/06, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
There are ten-lane surface roads and two-lane freeways. This is a category of freeways - highways with full control of access and no cross traffic. The bit about not all places using that term is not a problem, as we have to choose a term, and no one has put forth an alternate term. A Category:Elevators would include elevators where they are called lifts.
Why don't you just call it "Category:Highways with full control of access and no cross traffic"? It sounds less Americanocentric than "Freeways".
Assuming the word "Freeways" is exclusive to America is even more Americanocentric than not giving a damn whether it is nor not.
We foreigners have you coming and going on *this* one ;-)
(Personally, I don't object to [[Category:Freeways]] any more than I would [[Category:Elevators]])
On 7/21/06, Mark Gallagher m.g.gallagher@student.canberra.edu.au wrote:
(Personally, I don't object to [[Category:Freeways]] any more than I would [[Category:Elevators]])
[[Category:Diet sodas]] is an interesting one. Not even all Americans use it. Someone must have gotten confused.
Steve
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/21/06, Mark Gallagher m.g.gallagher@student.canberra.edu.au wrote:
(Personally, I don't object to [[Category:Freeways]] any more than I would [[Category:Elevators]])
[[Category:Diet sodas]] is an interesting one. Not even all Americans use it. Someone must have gotten confused.
You can get non-low-calorie sodium compounds?
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/21/06, Mark Gallagher m.g.gallagher@student.canberra.edu.au wrote:
(Personally, I don't object to [[Category:Freeways]] any more than I would [[Category:Elevators]])
[[Category:Diet sodas]] is an interesting one. Not even all Americans use it. Someone must have gotten confused.
You can get non-low-calorie sodium compounds?
I have for a very long time loved this page: http://www.popvssoda.com/
It has a map showing the geographic distribution of pop vs soda vs coke vs. other (usually soft drink).
SKL
ScottL wrote:
Alphax (Wikipedia email) wrote:
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/21/06, Mark Gallagher m.g.gallagher@student.canberra.edu.au wrote:
(Personally, I don't object to [[Category:Freeways]] any more than I would [[Category:Elevators]])
[[Category:Diet sodas]] is an interesting one. Not even all Americans use it. Someone must have gotten confused.
You can get non-low-calorie sodium compounds?
I have for a very long time loved this page: http://www.popvssoda.com/
It has a map showing the geographic distribution of pop vs soda vs coke vs. other (usually soft drink).
Pop? Isn't that what you do to bubble wrap?
Coke? Isn't that a fuel made from heating coal in the absence of air, or a slang term for cocaine?
G'day Scott,
I have for a very long time loved this page: http://www.popvssoda.com/
It has a map showing the geographic distribution of pop vs soda vs coke vs. other (usually soft drink).
That map of the world seems smaller than it ought to be (it's missing the bits on the edges that most maps of its kind mark "here be dragons").
Mark Gallagher wrote:
G'day Scott,
I have for a very long time loved this page: http://www.popvssoda.com/
It has a map showing the geographic distribution of pop vs soda vs coke vs. other (usually soft drink).
That map of the world seems smaller than it ought to be (it's missing the bits on the edges that most maps of its kind mark "here be dragons").
As I understand it the contentiousness of these different terms is almost exclusive to American English. At least that what [[Soft drink]] seems to indicate.
Dalf
On 7/27/06, ScottL scott@mu.org wrote:
I have for a very long time loved this page: http://www.popvssoda.com/
It has a map showing the geographic distribution of pop vs soda vs coke vs. other (usually soft drink).
Wow, Coke as a brand name is in trouble!
http://www.popvssoda.com/countystats/total-county.html
Steve
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:58:33 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
The bit about not all places using that term is not a problem, as we have to choose a term, and no one has put forth an alternate term.
Limited access highways is fine. Autobahn, autoroute and motorway all translate more or less equivalently, freeway is the odd one out.
Guy (JzG)
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:58:33 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
The bit about not all places using that term is not a problem, as we have to choose a term, and no one has put forth an alternate term.
Limited access highways is fine. Autobahn, autoroute and motorway all translate more or less equivalently, freeway is the odd one out.
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:44:02 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
So why not turn the redirect into limited access highways and leave limited access roads as they are?
Guy (JzG)
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:44:02 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
So why not turn the redirect into limited access highways and leave limited access roads as they are?
"Limited access highway" means the same thing as "limited access road" - in other words nowhere near the standards of a freeway in general.
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:43:38 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
"Limited access highway" means the same thing as "limited access road" - in other words nowhere near the standards of a freeway in general.
In your opinion.
Here, the Highways Agency looks after strategic routes and the local authorities look after local roads. Highways vs. byways, as it were. It sounds to me as if you are arguing to keep a problem so you can solve it in your preferred (and incidentally highly US-centric) way. Do be aware that, like "auto makers of foo" which grates on the ears of nationals where the word auto is practically never used to describe cars, using "freeway" to describe an autobahn, autoroute, autostrada, motorway etc. is likely to sound like another dollop of cultural imperialism.
Guy (JzG)
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:43:38 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
"Limited access highway" means the same thing as "limited access road" - in other words nowhere near the standards of a freeway in general.
In your opinion.
In the opinion of some official bodies. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=468-58-010
The following definitions shall designate limited access highways and shall indicate the control of access to be exercised by each:
(1) "Fully controlled limited access highway" is a highway where the right of owner or occupants of abutting land or other persons to access, light, air, or view in connection with the highway is controlled to give preference to through traffic by providing access connections with selected public roads only, and by prohibiting crossings or direct private driveway connections at grade, with the exception of Type C and F approaches, where no other reasonable means of access exists as solely determined by the department.
(2) "Partially controlled limited access highway" is a highway where the right of owner or occupants of abutting land or other persons to access, light, air, or view in connection with the highway is controlled to give preference to through traffic to a degree that, in addition to access connections with selected public roads, there may be some crossings and some private driveway connections at grade. Commercial approaches to partially controlled limited access highways are allowed only to frontage roads or by means of public road intersections. A partially controlled limited access highway may be designed to provide for separation of a part or all road crossings and the elimination of a part or all direct private driveway connections under a stage plan of future construction.
Thus, a "partially controlled limited access highway", a type of limited access highway, as defined in Washington, can have at-grade crossings.
http://www.shelbycountytn.gov/FirstPortal/dotShowDoc/dotContent/Government/O...
Limited-Access Highway: A highway that has access to it restricted to designated points *such as* interchanges. See Access Control. (emphasis added)
Here, the Highways Agency looks after strategic routes and the local authorities look after local roads. Highways vs. byways, as it were. It sounds to me as if you are arguing to keep a problem so you can solve it in your preferred (and incidentally highly US-centric) way. Do be aware that, like "auto makers of foo" which grates on the ears of nationals where the word auto is practically never used to describe cars, using "freeway" to describe an autobahn, autoroute, autostrada, motorway etc. is likely to sound like another dollop of cultural imperialism.
Should we separate [[Category:elevators]] and [[Category:lifts]]?
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:11:13 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
(1) "Fully controlled limited access highway" is a highway wherethe right of owner or occupants of abutting land or other persons to access, light, air, or view in connection with the highway is controlled to give preference to through traffic by providing access connections with selected public roads only, and by prohibiting crossings or direct private driveway connections at grade, with the exception of Type C and F approaches, where no other reasonable means of access exists as solely determined by the department.
Again, entirely US-centric. Where else in the world is this terminology used? You appear to be arguing for the US view to not just dominate but replace usage from the rest of the world.
Guy (JzG)
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:11:13 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
(1) "Fully controlled limited access highway" is a highway wherethe right of owner or occupants of abutting land or other persons to access, light, air, or view in connection with the highway is controlled to give preference to through traffic by providing access connections with selected public roads only, and by prohibiting crossings or direct private driveway connections at grade, with the exception of Type C and F approaches, where no other reasonable means of access exists as solely determined by the department.
Again, entirely US-centric. Where else in the world is this terminology used? You appear to be arguing for the US view to not just dominate but replace usage from the rest of the world.
I'm arguing that we should not use a term that has different meanings in different places.
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:39:15 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
I'm arguing that we should not use a term that has different meanings in different places.
So instead you prefer a term which has *no* meaning in *most* places?
Guy (JzG)
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:39:15 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
I'm arguing that we should not use a term that has different meanings in different places.
So instead you prefer a term which has *no* meaning in *most* places?
Yes, because its meaning is consistent. [[Category:Elevators]] includes lifts.
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:49:22 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
So instead you prefer a term which has *no* meaning in *most* places?
Yes, because its meaning is consistent. [[Category:Elevators]] includes lifts.
[[WP:NBD]]. My kids know what an elevator is, they don't know what a freeway is. Given that the words for this type of road in just about every other language I can think of translate to "motor road" or "motor way" perhaps that would be the least ambiguous thing. But limited-access highway, or restricted access highway, is also unambiguous without carrying the usual overtones of America = The World, per the World Series etc.
Guy (JzG)
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:49:22 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
So instead you prefer a term which has *no* meaning in *most* places?
Yes, because its meaning is consistent. [[Category:Elevators]] includes lifts.
[[WP:NBD]]. My kids know what an elevator is, they don't know what a freeway is. Given that the words for this type of road in just about every other language I can think of translate to "motor road" or "motor way" perhaps that would be the least ambiguous thing. But limited-access highway, or restricted access highway, is also unambiguous without carrying the usual overtones of America = The World, per the World Series etc.
I've already explained that limited-access highway is ambiguous.
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:53:09 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
I've already explained that limited-access highway is ambiguous.
No, you've named a single place which uses an unusual definition of limited-access road, which has no obvious parallels outside the US. Once again, The US <> The World.
Guy (JzG)
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:53:09 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
I've already explained that limited-access highway is ambiguous.
No, you've named a single place which uses an unusual definition of limited-access road, which has no obvious parallels outside the US. Once again, The US <> The World.
Who is to say which definition is unusual?
On 7/24/06, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:53:09 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
I've already explained that limited-access highway is ambiguous.
No, you've named a single place which uses an unusual definition of limited-access road, which has no obvious parallels outside the US. Once again, The US <> The World.
Who is to say which definition is unusual?
I'd say that definition is unusual, even in the US. In common usage, a limited-access highway is a divided highway, with no cross roads--instead using on & off ramps.
The USGS offers this common-sense definition: Limited Access Highway: A route that is part of the United States Interstate Highway System or other similar expressway. (http://www-atlas.usgs.gov/metadata/roadtrl020.faq.html)
In fact, "expressway" seems like a good synonym (to my very US-centric ears).
In any case, find a category name that seems to work, then add specifics to the definition on the category page. This hardly seems like a battle worth fighting.
Rich Holton [[W:en:User:Rholton]]
Richard Holton wrote:
On 7/24/06, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:53:09 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
I've already explained that limited-access highway is ambiguous.
No, you've named a single place which uses an unusual definition of limited-access road, which has no obvious parallels outside the US. Once again, The US <> The World.
Who is to say which definition is unusual?
I'd say that definition is unusual, even in the US. In common usage, a limited-access highway is a divided highway, with no cross roads--instead using on & off ramps.
Limited access highway would probably be understood generically in most of the US, but the term would not normally be used in the context, "Take the limited access highway to get there." Instead people would say, "Take the freeway (or expressway, or Interstate, or turnpike according to local custom)."
The USGS offers this common-sense definition: Limited Access Highway: A route that is part of the United States Interstate Highway System or other similar expressway. (http://www-atlas.usgs.gov/metadata/roadtrl020.faq.html)
That definition would be US-centric
In fact, "expressway" seems like a good synonym (to my very US-centric ears).
I don't think that its usage is uniform throughout the USA.
On 7/25/06, Adam Lorenz kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
I don't think that its usage is uniform throughout the USA.
In fact, it is a regional usage. In my region they are called highways (or interstates, if that is what they are)
In my region, it's called "I-90", because there's only the one.
On 7/25/06, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Limited access highway would probably be understood generically in most of the US, but the term would not normally be used in the context,
For what it's worth (nothing), I (outside the US) have never heard the term "limited access" with respect to a road, ever. Or at least I intentionally forgot it for the purpose of making this statement.
Actually that's not true - I've seen some country roads marked "limited access", meaning that only park rangers are allowed on them. And maybe the term is occasionally used in cities to indicate roads that large trucks, or unauthorised people aren't allowed to use.
Steve
I suppose "limited access" would be the same as motorways. They have on and off ramps instead of at grade crossings.
Adam
On 7/25/06, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/25/06, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Limited access highway would probably be understood generically in most of the US, but the term would not normally be used in the context,
For what it's worth (nothing), I (outside the US) have never heard the term "limited access" with respect to a road, ever. Or at least I intentionally forgot it for the purpose of making this statement.
Actually that's not true - I've seen some country roads marked "limited access", meaning that only park rangers are allowed on them. And maybe the term is occasionally used in cities to indicate roads that large trucks, or unauthorised people aren't allowed to use.
Steve _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/25/06, Adam Lorenz kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
I suppose "limited access" would be the same as motorways. They have on and off ramps instead of at grade crossings.
In Australia, that's a freeway (or a tollway!). And highways have a bit of both. Don't think we use the term "motorway" much, but we do use "motorist". I'm also not sure which of "dual carriageway" and "divided highway" we use more. See the confusion of Australia? We recognise nearly all the terms, and have trouble arbitrarily deciding which one to use.
Steve
We have that same problem in the United States. There are so many regional names, that it is difficult to know what is the most commonly used word. The word "freeway" is not used in South Carolina, but is in many other parts of the country, especially California. The word "carriageway" is non-existent in American English.
So? What do you call them? We can all agree that they are roads.
On 7/25/06, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/25/06, Adam Lorenz kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
I suppose "limited access" would be the same as motorways. They have on
and
off ramps instead of at grade crossings.
In Australia, that's a freeway (or a tollway!). And highways have a bit of both. Don't think we use the term "motorway" much, but we do use "motorist". I'm also not sure which of "dual carriageway" and "divided highway" we use more. See the confusion of Australia? We recognise nearly all the terms, and have trouble arbitrarily deciding which one to use.
Steve _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/25/06, Adam Lorenz kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
So? What do you call them? We can all agree that they are roads.
If it helps, I don't think the rules against neologisms apply as strongly to categories. There is no danger of users being unable to find the categories (unlikely anyone would attempt to type [[Category:Freeways]] or whatever). Also, categories are essentially fairly artificial groupings of semi-related articles anyway - an artificial name is excusable, if not ideal.
Steve
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 05:10:20PM +0200, Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/25/06, Adam Lorenz kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
I suppose "limited access" would be the same as motorways. They have on and off ramps instead of at grade crossings.
In Australia, that's a freeway (or a tollway!). And highways have a bit of both. Don't think we use the term "motorway" much, but we do use "motorist". I'm also not sure which of "dual carriageway" and "divided highway" we use more. See the confusion of Australia? We recognise nearly all the terms, and have trouble arbitrarily deciding which one to use.
Steve
And to even confuse it further we have the Calder freeway in Melbourne that has a stratch that is not limited access. There are cars coming in from all angles and cars crossing, and lots of people killing themselves. They have reduced the spped limit but it is stll called a freeway.
The only think we will agree on is "Road"
Brian Salter-Duke wrote:
The only think we will agree on is "Road"
I was just thinking the same thing. I wonder if there is an article dedicated to terms that are used for various types of roads and how they are used. I think we could just paste this thread on the talk page if there was.
Dalf
Brian Salter-Duke wrote:
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 05:10:20PM +0200, Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/25/06, Adam Lorenz kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
I suppose "limited access" would be the same as motorways. They have on and off ramps instead of at grade crossings.
In Australia, that's a freeway (or a tollway!). And highways have a bit of both. Don't think we use the term "motorway" much, but we do use "motorist". I'm also not sure which of "dual carriageway" and "divided highway" we use more. See the confusion of Australia? We recognise nearly all the terms, and have trouble arbitrarily deciding which one to use.
Steve
And to even confuse it further we have the Calder freeway in Melbourne that has a stratch that is not limited access. There are cars coming in from all angles and cars crossing, and lots of people killing themselves. They have reduced the spped limit but it is stll called a freeway.
What seems to be a factor in "freeway" is whether it's free as in beer when compared to a tollway, or free as in the liberty to move without needing to worry about red lights or cross traffic.
Ec
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/25/06, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Limited access highway would probably be understood generically in most of the US, but the term would not normally be used in the context,
For what it's worth (nothing), I (outside the US) have never heard the term "limited access" with respect to a road, ever. Or at least I intentionally forgot it for the purpose of making this statement.
Actually that's not true - I've seen some country roads marked "limited access", meaning that only park rangers are allowed on them. And maybe the term is occasionally used in cities to indicate roads that large trucks, or unauthorised people aren't allowed to use.
I think these are more correctly "restricted access" instead of "limited access", and that usage more frequently applies to roads that are not highways.
Ec
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:46:35 -0700, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Limited access highway would probably be understood generically in most of the US, but the term would not normally be used in the context, "Take the limited access highway to get there." Instead people would say, "Take the freeway (or expressway, or Interstate, or turnpike according to local custom)."
Or autostrada or autoroute or autobahn or motorway...
Limited access highway seems unlikely to be misunderstood.
Guy (JzG)
You said- Or autostrada or autoroute or autobahn or motorway...
Limited access highway seems unlikely to be misunderstood.
Autostrada, autoroute, autobahn, and motorway will not be understood anywhere in the US.
Adam
On 7/25/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:46:35 -0700, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Limited access highway would probably be understood generically in most of the US, but the term would not normally be used in the context, "Take the limited access highway to get there." Instead people would say, "Take the freeway (or expressway, or Interstate, or turnpike according to local custom)."
Or autostrada or autoroute or autobahn or motorway...
Limited access highway seems unlikely to be misunderstood.
Guy (JzG)
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:01:34 -0400, "Adam Lorenz" kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
Autostrada, autoroute, autobahn, and motorway will not be understood anywhere in the US.
Wanna bet? Every speed freak in the States references the lower fatality rate on the Autobahn (while quietly forgetting that the UK's speed-limited motorways are twice as safe again) ;-)
Guy (JzG)
Well, I should ammend my statement- we know the autobahns to be in Germany, motorways in the UK. These types of roads will not have the name motorway, autobahn, etc in the USA
On 7/25/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:01:34 -0400, "Adam Lorenz" kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
Autostrada, autoroute, autobahn, and motorway will not be understood anywhere in the US.
Wanna bet? Every speed freak in the States references the lower fatality rate on the Autobahn (while quietly forgetting that the UK's speed-limited motorways are twice as safe again) ;-)
Guy (JzG)
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:16:39 -0400, "Adam Lorenz" kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
Well, I should ammend my statement- we know the autobahns to be in Germany, motorways in the UK. These types of roads will not have the name motorway, autobahn, etc in the USA
Indeed. SPUI's solution is to categorise them all as freeways. I don't think much of that...
Guy (JzG)
Actually, I have never heard "limited access highway" ever in the US. I still don't know what the hell it means.
On 7/25/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:16:39 -0400, "Adam Lorenz" kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
Well, I should ammend my statement- we know the autobahns to be in
Germany,
motorways in the UK. These types of roads will not have the name
motorway,
autobahn, etc in the USA
Indeed. SPUI's solution is to categorise them all as freeways. I don't think much of that...
Guy (JzG)
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/25/06, mboverload mboverload@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, I have never heard "limited access highway" ever in the US. I still don't know what the hell it means.
It's the opposite of an uncontrolled highway.
In brief, roads that cross a limited-access highway are overpasses or underpasses. Roads that cross an uncontrolled highway are intersections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Autofellatio_2.jpg
Its back.
SV
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On 7/26/06, stevertigo vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Autofellatio_2.jpg
Uh, how is this fancruft? (Btw, NOT WORKSAFE!)
Steve
Isn't that just reposting of deleted content?
On 7/26/06, stevertigo vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Autofellatio_2.jpg
Its back.
SV
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/26/06, stevertigo vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Autofellatio_2.jpg
Its back.
SV
It never went away
stevertigo wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Autofellatio_2.jpg
Its back.
And you still don't know how to start new threads.
On 26/07/06, stevertigo vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Autofellatio_2.jpg
Its back.
SV
This image was uploaded to Commons so is a Commons issue.
On 7/27/06, Oldak Quill oldakquill@gmail.com wrote:
On 26/07/06, stevertigo vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Autofellatio_2.jpg
Its back.
SV
This image was uploaded to Commons so is a Commons issue.
But this is wikien-I not commons-l. As long as bad image list contines to work I don't think it is really something we have to worry about too much.
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:16:39 -0400, "Adam Lorenz" kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
Well, I should ammend my statement- we know the autobahns to be in Germany, motorways in the UK. These types of roads will not have the name motorway, autobahn, etc in the USA
Indeed. SPUI's solution is to categorise them all as freeways. I don't think much of that...
Which is why I'm trying to get it moved to "freeways and motorways". Riiiiight.
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:38:40 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
Which is why I'm trying to get it moved to "freeways and motorways". Riiiiight.
Moving the goalposts much? ;-)
Guy (JzG)
On 7/25/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
Or autostrada or autoroute or autobahn or motorway...
Limited access highway seems unlikely to be misunderstood.
Honestly, to me "limited access" sounds like only certain people are able to use it. If what I call a freeway would actually fit into your "limited access highway", then, yes, I would have misunderstood the term.
But someone remind me why this overarching category (which is presumably divided immediately into American freeways, American expressways etc) is so important?
Steve
If thats true this term is shitty and shouldn't be use.
I've made up my mind. The term is not correct, confusing, and should not be used.
On 7/26/06, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/25/06, Guy Chapman aka JzG guy.chapman@spamcop.net wrote:
Or autostrada or autoroute or autobahn or motorway...
Limited access highway seems unlikely to be misunderstood.
Honestly, to me "limited access" sounds like only certain people are able to use it. If what I call a freeway would actually fit into your "limited access highway", then, yes, I would have misunderstood the term.
But someone remind me why this overarching category (which is presumably divided immediately into American freeways, American expressways etc) is so important?
Steve _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/25/06, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Richard Holton wrote:
I'd say that definition is unusual, even in the US. In common usage, a limited-access highway is a divided highway, with no cross roads--instead using on & off ramps.
Limited access highway would probably be understood generically in most of the US, but the term would not normally be used in the context, "Take the limited access highway to get there." Instead people would say, "Take the freeway (or expressway, or Interstate, or turnpike according to local custom)."
<chuckle> I talk that way all the time, don't you? You're correct, or course, (virtually) no one talks that way, but as you say, most would understand the term.
The USGS offers this common-sense definition:
Limited Access Highway: A route that is part of the United States
Interstate
Highway System or other similar expressway. (http://www-atlas.usgs.gov/metadata/roadtrl020.faq.html)
That definition would be US-centric
Guily as charged. I wasn't really trying to find a non-US-centric definition, but rather attempting to demonstrate that the odd secondary defintion given several e-mails ago isn't the common understanding in the US.
In fact, "expressway" seems like a good synonym (to my very US-centric ears).
I don't think that its usage is uniform throughout the USA.
Given the other responses, you seem to be correct.
Perhaps we need to stay away from any of the regional/national/continental terms for the category name. We don't need to create a neologism--we could use a short descriptive phrase that gives a hint as to the meaning, and rely on text on the category page to clarify.
Something like "Ramped roads", though I'm sure others will have better ideas.
Rich Holton
On 7/26/06, Richard Holton richholton@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps we need to stay away from any of the regional/national/continental terms for the category name. We don't need to create a neologism--we could use a short descriptive phrase that gives a hint as to the meaning, and rely on text on the category page to clarify.
Something like "Ramped roads", though I'm sure others will have better ideas.
How about "intersection-free highways"?
Thinking about it a bit, there's really no need for a single best term, is there? Don't category redirections work? Or at least, shouldn't they? :)
Steve
Category redirects don't work because, for example, if Category A is redirected to Category B, the articles linking to Category A will populate Category A and not B.
On 7/26/06, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/26/06, Richard Holton richholton@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps we need to stay away from any of the
regional/national/continental
terms for the category name. We don't need to create a neologism--we
could
use a short descriptive phrase that gives a hint as to the meaning, and
rely
on text on the category page to clarify.
Something like "Ramped roads", though I'm sure others will have better ideas.
How about "intersection-free highways"?
Thinking about it a bit, there's really no need for a single best term, is there? Don't category redirections work? Or at least, shouldn't they? :)
Steve _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/26/06, Adam Lorenz kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
Category redirects don't work because, for example, if Category A is redirected to Category B, the articles linking to Category A will populate Category A and not B.
Be cool if it did though. Then you could go to either cat A or B and see the same list of articles. Actually something similar and even better could be done if a category could *include* another category (rather than becoming a subcategory of it). In that case, you could cat Motorways and cat Freeways, one of which actually includes all the entries of the other, totally transparently.
Steve
I wonder if transcluding works in categories... That's a good point.
Adam
On 7/26/06, Steve Bennett stevagewp@gmail.com wrote:
On 7/26/06, Adam Lorenz kungfuadam@gmail.com wrote:
Category redirects don't work because, for example, if Category A is redirected to Category B, the articles linking to Category A will
populate
Category A and not B.
Be cool if it did though. Then you could go to either cat A or B and see the same list of articles. Actually something similar and even better could be done if a category could *include* another category (rather than becoming a subcategory of it). In that case, you could cat Motorways and cat Freeways, one of which actually includes all the entries of the other, totally transparently.
Steve _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Richard Holton wrote:
On 7/25/06, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Richard Holton wrote:
I'd say that definition is unusual, even in the US. In common usage, a limited-access highway is a divided highway, with no cross roads--instead using on & off ramps.
Limited access highway would probably be understood generically in most of the US, but the term would not normally be used in the context, "Take the limited access highway to get there." Instead people would say, "Take the freeway (or expressway, or Interstate, or turnpike according to local custom)."
<chuckle> I talk that way all the time, don't you? You're correct, or course, (virtually) no one talks that way, but as you say, most would understand the term.
Having nobody talk that way is one of the strongest arguments for using the term. :-) I suspect that it's mostly used among those who work at planning, designing, and engineering road systems.
In fact, "expressway" seems like a good synonym (to my very US-centric ears).
I don't think that its usage is uniform throughout the USA.
Given the other responses, you seem to be correct.
Perhaps we need to stay away from any of the regional/national/continental terms for the category name. We don't need to create a neologism--we could use a short descriptive phrase that gives a hint as to the meaning, and rely on text on the category page to clarify.
Something like "Ramped roads", though I'm sure others will have better ideas.
"Ramped roads" give me visions of Evel Knievel.
Ec
Richard Holton wrote:
I'd say that definition is unusual, even in the US. In common usage, a limited-access highway is a divided highway, with no cross roads--instead using on & off ramps.
The USGS offers this common-sense definition: Limited Access Highway: A route that is part of the United States Interstate Highway System or other similar expressway. (http://www-atlas.usgs.gov/metadata/roadtrl020.faq.html)
In fact, "expressway" seems like a good synonym (to my very US-centric ears).
Would you call this an expressway? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:San_Tomas_Expressway.jpg A number of states do, both in official and common usage.
SPUI wrote:
Richard Holton wrote:
I'd say that definition is unusual, even in the US. In common usage, a limited-access highway is a divided highway, with no cross roads--instead using on & off ramps.
The USGS offers this common-sense definition: Limited Access Highway: A route that is part of the United States Interstate Highway System or other similar expressway. (http://www-atlas.usgs.gov/metadata/roadtrl020.faq.html)
In fact, "expressway" seems like a good synonym (to my very US-centric ears).
Would you call this an expressway? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:San_Tomas_Expressway.jpg A number of states do, both in official and common usage.
I wouldn't. My earliest recollections of "expressways" were commemoratively named limited access highways in the Detroit area.
Ec
I had my attention drawn to the following passage in the Fred Phelps article:
"Phelps also wrote a book in the 1980s with his son-in-law, [[Brent D. Roper]], called ''The Conspiracy''. In the book, Roper and Phelps claim to possess evidence that [[AIDS]] was spontaneously generated in [[Africa]]; [[Truman Capote]] contracted the disease during an orgy with African tribesmen; Capote then gave the disease to [[John F. Kennedy]] and [[Marilyn Monroe]] by playing [[American football|football]] with them; and that the [[Central Intelligence Agency|CIA]] [[assassin]]ated all three to prevent the spread of the disease. Phelps published and distributed the book himself; it was also sold in the back of [[Peter J. Peters]] catalogue of [[extremist]] literature, and thus became a widely circulated text among such groups as the [[Ku Klux Klan]], [[Aryan Brotherhood]], and [[Christian Identity]]."
A similar passage appeared at [[Brent D. Roper]]. I appreciate the internet isn't the best place to try and source things, but the anon user 69.154.189.180 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=6... who added the above passages provided one link, which I don't consider a reliable source, and I haven't turned any good ones up that aren't WP mirrors on google.
The link in question is http://blank.org/addict/chapter9.html and purports to be a transcript of a lawsuit, although it appears, according to this site, that the lawsuit files have been sealed by the judge. This info was added to the Phelps article on the 12th July 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fred_Phelps&diff=prev&oldi... and was the basis of the creation of the Roper article on the 12th July 2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brent_D._Roper&oldid=18655128 and has remained pretty much in place ever since, over one year.
I've removed the passages per [[WP:BLP]]. I have no axe to grind here, as a UK citizen I have no idea who Phelps is, but I feel strongly that information should be verifiable. That the article on Fred Phelps is featured, and was featured with the information in, despite there being no reliable sources provided, suggests flaws in the Wikipedia process.
I'm attempting a wikibreak, details outlined on my talk page, but I want to bring this to people's attentions. I figure that a large number of eyeballs from participants on this list directed to the passage I removed from the Fred Phelps article will ascertain whether it was the right thing to do, in case I have the wrong end of the stick. Appreciate people's time here,
Steve block
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:36:18 +0100, Steve Block steve.block@myrealbox.com wrote:
I've removed the passages per [[WP:BLP]].
The correct course. I will put them on my watchlist. Hopefully some other people will too.
Guy (JzG)
SPUI wrote:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:49:22 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
So instead you prefer a term which has *no* meaning in *most* places?
Yes, because its meaning is consistent. [[Category:Elevators]] includes lifts.
[[WP:NBD]]. My kids know what an elevator is, they don't know what a freeway is. Given that the words for this type of road in just about every other language I can think of translate to "motor road" or "motor way" perhaps that would be the least ambiguous thing. But limited-access highway, or restricted access highway, is also unambiguous without carrying the usual overtones of America = The World, per the World Series etc.
I've already explained that limited-access highway is ambiguous.
I don't see what's ambiguous about the term.
Ec
A limited-access highway is a highway that has its access limited.
TaDa! I just defined it for you.
On 7/24/06, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
SPUI wrote:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 16:49:22 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
So instead you prefer a term which has *no* meaning in *most* places?
Yes, because its meaning is consistent. [[Category:Elevators]] includes lifts.
[[WP:NBD]]. My kids know what an elevator is, they don't know what a freeway is. Given that the words for this type of road in just about every other language I can think of translate to "motor road" or "motor way" perhaps that would be the least ambiguous thing. But limited-access highway, or restricted access highway, is also unambiguous without carrying the usual overtones of America = The World, per the World Series etc.
I've already explained that limited-access highway is ambiguous.
I don't see what's ambiguous about the term.
Ec
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 7/25/06, mboverload mboverload@gmail.com wrote:
A limited-access highway is a highway that has its access limited.
TaDa! I just defined it for you.
One better: It's a road. They're all roads. The end. --LV
Lord Voldemort wrote:
On 7/25/06, mboverload mboverload@gmail.com wrote:
A limited-access highway is a highway that has its access limited.
TaDa! I just defined it for you.
One better: It's a road. They're all roads. The end. --LV
It's a subset of highways, which is in turn a subset of roads.
Ec
SPUI wrote:
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:39:15 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
I'm arguing that we should not use a term that has different meanings in different places.
So instead you prefer a term which has *no* meaning in *most* places?
Yes, because its meaning is consistent. [[Category:Elevators]] includes lifts.
Why aren't grain elevators included in the category?
Ec
On 7/20/06, Oldak Quill oldakquill@gmail.com wrote:
It'd probably be a good idea to move it from "Limited-access roads" but I'm not sure what to. "High-speed roadways" is a problem in that some rural lanes in Texas have higher speed limits than interstates (as someone mentions in the discussion). "Freeway and motorway" is problematic because these are just two examples of what these structures are named.
How about something like "High-throughput roadways"?
This is going to be one of those great debates, I can see. The current situation is awesome:
Category:Limited-access roads This category is for [[highways with full control of access and no cross traffic]]. It is not for [[limited access road]]s, as that is an ambiguous term.
A category that is not to contain items about itself! :)
How do people get so worked up about it? Can't you just put all highways into [[Category:Highways]], then freeways into cat:freeways and so on, and just, well, stop squabbling? If there's no good term that covers all these things, maybe the category doesn't need to exist? Maybe it should just be a list?
Wow, there's even an AfD on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_slang_terms_for_freeways_and_expressway...
I love it.
Steve
Steve Bennett wrote:
On 7/20/06, Oldak Quill oldakquill@gmail.com wrote:
It'd probably be a good idea to move it from "Limited-access roads" but I'm not sure what to. "High-speed roadways" is a problem in that some rural lanes in Texas have higher speed limits than interstates (as someone mentions in the discussion). "Freeway and motorway" is problematic because these are just two examples of what these structures are named.
How about something like "High-throughput roadways"?
This is going to be one of those great debates, I can see. The current situation is awesome:
Category:Limited-access roads This category is for [[highways with full control of access and no cross traffic]]. It is not for [[limited access road]]s, as that is an ambiguous term.
A category that is not to contain items about itself! :)
How do people get so worked up about it? Can't you just put all highways into [[Category:Highways]], then freeways into cat:freeways and so on, and just, well, stop squabbling? If there's no good term that covers all these things, maybe the category doesn't need to exist? Maybe it should just be a list?
These are all freeways - motorways are freeways, autobahns are freeways, etc. A freeway is a highway with full control of access and no cross traffic. This category is for freeways, and it was originally called Category:Freeways.
On 20/07/06, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
These are all freeways - motorways are freeways, autobahns are freeways, etc. A freeway is a highway with full control of access and no cross traffic. This category is for freeways, and it was originally called Category:Freeways.
As a Brit, I'm sure you mean "These are all motorways - freeways are motorways, autobahns are motorways, etc."? Anyway, I'll forgive your confusion. ;)
Oldak Quill wrote:
On 20/07/06, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
These are all freeways - motorways are freeways, autobahns are freeways, etc. A freeway is a highway with full control of access and no cross traffic. This category is for freeways, and it was originally called Category:Freeways.
As a Brit, I'm sure you mean "These are all motorways - freeways are motorways, autobahns are motorways, etc."? Anyway, I'll forgive your confusion. ;)
Not so - the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Cross_Route is a freeway but not a motorway, as it was stripped of its motorway status in 2000. Motorway is a classification rather than a standard of building; many longer sections of road are freeways but cannot be classified as motorways, as slow vehicles are banned from all motorways.
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:40:29 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
Not so - the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Cross_Route is a freeway but not a motorway, as it was stripped of its motorway status in 2000. Motorway is a classification rather than a standard of building; many longer sections of road are freeways but cannot be classified as motorways, as slow vehicles are banned from all motorways.
Really they are dual carriageways. That is, roads, which have two distinct and separate carriageways.
Guy (JzG)
G'day Guy,
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:40:29 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
Not so - the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Cross_Route is a freeway but not a motorway, as it was stripped of its motorway status in 2000. Motorway is a classification rather than a standard of building; many longer sections of road are freeways but cannot be classified as motorways, as slow vehicles are banned from all motorways.
Really they are dual carriageways. That is, roads, which have two distinct and separate carriageways.
Roads that don't qualify as freeways can still be dual carriageways ...
Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:40:29 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
Not so - the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Cross_Route is a freeway but not a motorway, as it was stripped of its motorway status in 2000. Motorway is a classification rather than a standard of building; many longer sections of road are freeways but cannot be classified as motorways, as slow vehicles are banned from all motorways.
Really they are dual carriageways. That is, roads, which have two distinct and separate carriageways.
No - they're more than that. Dual carraigeways can be full of at-grade intersections.
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:38:24 -0400, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
These are all freeways - motorways are freeways, autobahns are freeways, etc.
Or rather, freeways are motorways :-)
In many countries they are not "free" either.
Guy (JzG)
Oldak Quill wrote:
On 20/07/06, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
So even though almost no one now supports the name "Limited-access roads", including several who also commented in the original CFD, it is kept there because of a vote-counter. I fail to see why we have chosen to operate this way - there is certainly not consensus to keep it there. If I choose to ignore all rules I will probably be banned for violating my probation against "provocative edits". But the current name does not correctly describe the purpose of the category.
I didn't understand why you didn't just move the category until that mention of "provocative edits". I'd happily move the category for you, if no one objects?
It would probably be reverted by someone opposing it, who would use the "no consensus" and the way CFD works to enforce it. Then if I tried to revert we'd get a revert war on 20 or so pages.