From [[ minority ]]:
''This article is about the concept of a minority. For an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority (song)|Minority]].''
!
SV
____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
There's nothing wrong in my opinon with this. However, I am worried about Jimbo's announcement about locking some articles. See http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/computing/20050805-1259-media-wikipedia.h...
Regards,
Zachary Harden
From: steve v vertigosteve@yahoo.com Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org To: wikien-l@wikimedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world? Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
From [[ minority ]]:
''This article is about the concept of a minority. For an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority (song)|Minority]].''
Simply freezing content seems rather unwiki, but here "lock" is just a misnomer for "extended protection," allowing sysops only to edit them. The idea is that WP has gotten too big and fast to monitor all vandalism quickly, and dormant/stagnant pages present an easy target.
As long as there are certain degrees between 'completely open' and 'completely closed,' and a means (other than just talk pages) for non-admins to request changes on "locked" pages, it should be fine.
And yes, a disfork linking a pop-band like "Green Day" from a general article like "minority" IS a problem.
SV
--- Zachary Harden zscout370@hotmail.com wrote:
There's nothing wrong in my opinon with this. However, I am worried about Jimbo's announcement about locking some articles. See
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/computing/20050805-1259-media-wikipedia.h...
Regards,
Zachary Harden
From: steve v vertigosteve@yahoo.com Reply-To: English Wikipedia
To: wikien-l@wikimedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world? Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
From [[ minority ]]:
''This article is about the concept of a minority.
For
an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see
[[Minority
(song)|Minority]].''
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
There's nothing wrong with the minority thing, but it is pretty funny. I completely agree with locking completed articles. Why should they be edited if they're done?
On 8/5/05, Zachary Harden zscout370@hotmail.com wrote:
There's nothing wrong in my opinon with this. However, I am worried about Jimbo's announcement about locking some articles. See http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/computing/20050805-1259-media-wikipedia.h...
Regards,
Zachary Harden
From: steve v vertigosteve@yahoo.com Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org To: wikien-l@wikimedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world? Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 12:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
From [[ minority ]]:
''This article is about the concept of a minority. For an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority (song)|Minority]].''
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Examples:
:''For the metal band, see [[United States of Discontent]]'' '''United States''' is a country in [[North America]]n continent....
:''For the [[Slobulus]] music single regarding roosters and alarm clocks, see [[Queen Elizabeth Loves the Cock]]'' [[Majesty|Her Majesty]] '''Queen Elizabeth II''' (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary [[House of Windsor|Windsor]]), styled '''''HM The Queen''''' (born [[21 April]] [[1926]]) is the [[Queen regnant]] and [[head of state]] of...
Need I continue?
SV
--- Phroziac phroziac@gmail.com wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the minority thing, but it is pretty funny.
____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
I can also point out that someone can do that to the God Save the Queen article, and your right, it can go on. Though, I do know what we want to do is write a serious encyclopedia, it seems that alot of people come here and write about pop-culture.
Regards,
Zachary Harden
From: steve v vertigosteve@yahoo.com Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org To: Phroziac phroziac@gmail.com,English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world? Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 13:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
Examples:
:''For the metal band, see [[United States of Discontent]]'' '''United States''' is a country in [[North America]]n continent....
:''For the [[Slobulus]] music single regarding roosters and alarm clocks, see [[Queen Elizabeth Loves the Cock]]'' [[Majesty|Her Majesty]] '''Queen Elizabeth II''' (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary [[House of Windsor|Windsor]]), styled '''''HM The Queen''''' (born [[21 April]] [[1926]]) is the [[Queen regnant]] and [[head of state]] of...
Need I continue?
SV
Pop-culture is serious, to some extent. Having a seperate article about every single pokemon is rediculous, for example.
On 8/5/05, Zachary Harden zscout370@hotmail.com wrote:
I can also point out that someone can do that to the God Save the Queen article, and your right, it can go on. Though, I do know what we want to do is write a serious encyclopedia, it seems that alot of people come here and write about pop-culture.
Regards,
Zachary Harden
From: steve v vertigosteve@yahoo.com Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org To: Phroziac phroziac@gmail.com,English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world? Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 13:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
Examples:
:''For the metal band, see [[United States of Discontent]]'' '''United States''' is a country in [[North America]]n continent....
:''For the [[Slobulus]] music single regarding roosters and alarm clocks, see [[Queen Elizabeth Loves the Cock]]'' [[Majesty|Her Majesty]] '''Queen Elizabeth II''' (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary [[House of Windsor|Windsor]]), styled '''''HM The Queen''''' (born [[21 April]] [[1926]]) is the [[Queen regnant]] and [[head of state]] of...
Need I continue?
SV
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 05/08/05, steve v vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
Examples:
:''For the metal band, see [[United States of Discontent]]'' '''United States''' is a country in [[North America]]n continent....
:''For the [[Slobulus]] music single regarding roosters and alarm clocks, see [[Queen Elizabeth Loves the Cock]]'' [[Majesty|Her Majesty]] '''Queen Elizabeth II''' (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary [[House of Windsor|Windsor]]), styled '''''HM The Queen''''' (born [[21 April]] [[1926]]) is the [[Queen regnant]] and [[head of state]] of...
Need I continue?
No, you don't :-).
They're silly. Just take them out.
Dan
I completely agree with locking completed articles. Why should they be edited if they're done?
Articles are never permanently "done", stuff happens. :)
Even articles on ancient history need updating as new discoveries, new theories and new perspectives arise. Our idea of what good prose looks like also changes with time.
Anyone who's worked with 1911-Britannica entries is familiar with the above problems.
Regards, Haukur
This old edit on [[Holler]] is one of my favorites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Holler&diff=5401691&oldid=...
The article went from bogus information on a purported Norse god to what looks like a probable copyvio on a Spice Girls single. (If there was an online source it can't be found anymore.)
On the Norse mythology articles, which is my primary sphere of interest on Wikipedia, irrelevant fancruft tends to accumulate and distract from the main content of the entries.
For an example see [[Yggdrasil]] which has a large Popular Culture section and a disambiguation entry, both of which could be summarized with "a bunch of things in a bunch of games/novels/etc. have been named after the mythological Yggdrasil".
Sometimes I snap and delete some of the stuff. For example I removed the following from [[Fenrisulfr]]:
"Fenrir appears as a summonable character in Squaresoft's Final Fantasy IX. Also it is a summonable creature in Final Fantasy XI."
Recently, of course, the poor wolf got this added to the top of his page:
"For the character from the Harry Potter novel, see Fenrir Greyback."
The article on [[Nótt]] the personification of "night" in Norse mythology had this at its top:
"For the Harry Potter character, see Minor Dark wizards in Harry Potter."
The irony here is that a bunch of real people have been named "Nott" and singling out a *minor* dark wizard from the Harry Potter books is patently absurd.
I don't actually mind fancruft. I can even appreciate that there are probably more people who care about Harry Potter mythology than Norse mythology. But still, I don't want it in my face all the time :)
Regards, Haukur
On 05/08/05, Haukur Þorgeirsson haukurth@hi.is wrote:
For an example see [[Yggdrasil]] which has a large Popular Culture section and a disambiguation entry, both of which could be summarized with "a bunch of things in a bunch of games/novels/etc. have been named after the mythological Yggdrasil".
I was about to cite the "Popular Culture" section of [[Space Shuttle program]] here, but it seems someone finally decided to purge it last month, and create [[Space Shuttles in fiction]]... it had grown to a truly silly size - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Space_Shuttle_program&diff=186...
[[Space station]], whilst no-where near as long, has a section which basically seems to consist of "X work of fiction contained a space station". The potential for expansion of this, given the prevalence of articles about sf books and individual TV episodes, is not a cheering one... time to purge a little, I think.
By the way, the pop culture thing is just because the younger people that come around want to write about what they care about, and well, alot of them don't care about much but pokemon, or green day :) Just give them space if you don't like it.
On 8/5/05, Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/08/05, Haukur Þorgeirsson haukurth@hi.is wrote:
For an example see [[Yggdrasil]] which has a large Popular Culture section and a disambiguation entry, both of which could be summarized with "a bunch of things in a bunch of games/novels/etc. have been named after the mythological Yggdrasil".
I was about to cite the "Popular Culture" section of [[Space Shuttle program]] here, but it seems someone finally decided to purge it last month, and create [[Space Shuttles in fiction]]... it had grown to a truly silly size - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Space_Shuttle_program&diff=186...
[[Space station]], whilst no-where near as long, has a section which basically seems to consist of "X work of fiction contained a space station". The potential for expansion of this, given the prevalence of articles about sf books and individual TV episodes, is not a cheering one... time to purge a little, I think.
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I was about to cite the "Popular Culture" section of [[Space Shuttle program]] here, but it seems someone finally decided to purge it last month, and create [[Space Shuttles in fiction]]... it had grown to a truly silly size - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Space_Shuttle_program&diff=186...
Good move. Some of this is actually interesting to me, though. If I get this right the space shuttle Enterprise was named after Captain Kirk's Enterprise, but in the Star Trek universe the original interstellar Enterprise and its sister ships were named after the space shuttles. So, it's a "temporal loop" - or something ;)
Regards, Haukur
Hey; I just wrote an article (jist: wikipedia will soon be more important than linux) and wanted to get feedback from people who have a detailed knowledge of wikipedia (namely, the people on this list).
http://wikip.blogspot.com/2005/08/future-of-open-source-5-years-ago.html
Cheers,
Ben Yates
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Ben Yates wrote:
Hey; I just wrote an article (jist: wikipedia will soon be more important than linux) and wanted to get feedback from people who have a detailed knowledge of wikipedia (namely, the people on this list).
http://wikip.blogspot.com/2005/08/future-of-open-source-5-years-ago.html
The first graph is INSANE. Can you put it on commons or meta?
- -- Alphax | /"\ Encrypted Email Preferred | \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613 | X Against HTML email & vCards http://tinyurl.com/cc9up | / \
Done. =p http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hugegraph.gif
On 8/6/05, Alphax alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
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Ben Yates wrote:
Hey; I just wrote an article (jist: wikipedia will soon be more important than linux) and wanted to get feedback from people who have a detailed knowledge of wikipedia (namely, the people on this list).
http://wikip.blogspot.com/2005/08/future-of-open-source-5-years-ago.html
The first graph is INSANE. Can you put it on commons or meta?
Ben Yates (bluephonic@gmail.com) [050807 00:25]:
Hey; I just wrote an article (jist: wikipedia will soon be more important than linux) and wanted to get feedback from people who have a detailed knowledge of wikipedia (namely, the people on this list). http://wikip.blogspot.com/2005/08/future-of-open-source-5-years-ago.html
Love that bar chart ;-) It also explains one of Wikipedia's real problems: we have a zillion editors making demands, and a way too small number of actual developers working on the actual MediaWiki code.
- d.
On 05/08/05, Ben Yates bluephonic@gmail.com wrote:
Hey; I just wrote an article (jist: wikipedia will soon be more important than linux) and wanted to get feedback from people who have a detailed knowledge of wikipedia (namely, the people on this list).
+5, Insightful, as they say: an interesting point, and well made, without labouring the point. [And yes, that graph is hilarious!]
On 05/08/05, Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/08/05, Haukur Þorgeirsson haukurth@hi.is wrote:
it had grown to a
truly silly size - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Space_Shuttle_program&diff=186...
From that section:
"A [[2005]] episode involving an alternate universe showed the NX-09 ''Avenger'', so perhaps in the ''[[Star Trek]]'' universe, at least four more shuttles were constructed, one of them being OVA-109 ''Avenger''"
No Original Research, eh? But I don't really think anyone cares.
On 05/08/05, Chris Lüer chris@zandria.net wrote:
At 04:14 PM 8/5/2005, SPUI wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Green+Day+-+Minority&... gives no relevant results in the first page.
But the Google site search does: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awikipedia.org+Green+Day+Mino...
That really goes to show that, while the search system has been greatly improved this year, it still has a long way to go. I personally use only Google site search for searching Wikipedia.
Dan
While I'm personally against "pop-culture cruft", sometimes these "X in popular culture" pages are not so bad. I complained on here awhile back that the list of "movies featuring nuclear weapons" in the [[Nuclear weapon]] article had gotten ridiculously long, so somebody thoughtfully created [[Nuclear weapons in popular culture]], which is itself an interesting topic (though the article is still young), one which allows for more than just a listing.
FF
On 8/5/05, Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/08/05, Haukur Þorgeirsson haukurth@hi.is wrote:
For an example see [[Yggdrasil]] which has a large Popular Culture section and a disambiguation entry, both of which could be summarized with "a bunch of things in a bunch of games/novels/etc. have been named after the mythological Yggdrasil".
I was about to cite the "Popular Culture" section of [[Space Shuttle program]] here, but it seems someone finally decided to purge it last month, and create [[Space Shuttles in fiction]]... it had grown to a truly silly size - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Space_Shuttle_program&diff=186...
[[Space station]], whilst no-where near as long, has a section which basically seems to consist of "X work of fiction contained a space station". The potential for expansion of this, given the prevalence of articles about sf books and individual TV episodes, is not a cheering one... time to purge a little, I think.
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Haukur Þorgeirsson (haukurth@hi.is) [050806 07:28]:
On the Norse mythology articles, which is my primary sphere of interest on Wikipedia, irrelevant fancruft tends to accumulate and distract from the main content of the entries. For an example see [[Yggdrasil]] which has a large Popular Culture section and a disambiguation entry, both of which could be summarized with "a bunch of things in a bunch of games/novels/etc. have been named after the mythological Yggdrasil". Sometimes I snap and delete some of the stuff. For example I removed the following from [[Fenrisulfr]]: "Fenrir appears as a summonable character in Squaresoft's Final Fantasy IX. Also it is a summonable creature in Final Fantasy XI."
See [[Lilith]] for what seems so far to be a stable solution to this problem: all the pop culture is in [[Lilith (disambiguation)]]; and after someone re-added the ==Lilith in popular culture== section, I made that section's entire contents "See [[Lilith (disambiguation)]]". You'll probably want to do that with quite a lot of the pop-culture-infested Norse mythology articles.
- d.
--- "Poor, Edmund W" Edmund.W.Poor@abc.com wrote:
[Larry Sanger] sees [our anti-elitism] as causing our 2 biggest problems:
- a perception of unreliability (justified or not)
- an often unpleasant an even hostile working atmosphere
We value getting the content right over blindly trusting somebody's credentials. So yes, things do get unpleasant for people who expect the use of their credentials and similar appeals to authority will easily win them arguments over content. I've had enough PhD professors who espoused, as fact, fairly fringe ideas that I no longer just assume any one of them is right without checking.
So remember this refrain when confronted with credentialism again: "It's about the content, not who wrote it, stupid!"
If that is anti-elitist, then so be it.
-- mav
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Phroziac wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the minority thing, but it is pretty funny. I completely agree with locking completed articles. Why should they be edited if they're done?
A "done" article? There's no such thing.
I hope Jimbo's just been misleadingly quoted, personally. I would like to see a system whereby versions of an article can be marked as "nice" so that it's really easy to get to the most recent "nice" version. Perhaps even have the "nice" version be the default one shown to non-logged-in users and/or users who set a preference for that, with the edit link still taking the user to the current version instead. But I think officially permanently locking an article because someone thinks that it's "done" is a tremendously bad idea. Article protection is a very blunt instrument, blunter even than user bans, and I believe using it this way would damage Wikipedia far worse than any vandalism it might prevent.
And how can we mark it as even nice? A template could disrupt the page, but IMHO, any type of mark on the article page is just asking for trouble. Plus, I still do not know how can one define a "done" article on here and how many will be protected on a trial basis.
Regards,
Zachary Harden
From: Bryan Derksen bryan.derksen@shaw.ca Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 17:29:02 -0700
Phroziac wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the minority thing, but it is pretty funny. I completely agree with locking completed articles. Why should they be edited if they're done?
A "done" article? There's no such thing.
I hope Jimbo's just been misleadingly quoted, personally. I would like to see a system whereby versions of an article can be marked as "nice" so that it's really easy to get to the most recent "nice" version. Perhaps even have the "nice" version be the default one shown to non-logged-in users and/or users who set a preference for that, with the edit link still taking the user to the current version instead. But I think officially permanently locking an article because someone thinks that it's "done" is a tremendously bad idea. Article protection is a very blunt instrument, blunter even than user bans, and I believe using it this way would damage Wikipedia far worse than any vandalism it might prevent.
As was mentioned in #wikimania on IRC, jimbo IS mistakenly misquoted, but nobody really knows what he said. He's been requested to debunk the screwups already.
On 8/5/05, Zachary Harden zscout370@hotmail.com wrote:
And how can we mark it as even nice? A template could disrupt the page, but IMHO, any type of mark on the article page is just asking for trouble. Plus, I still do not know how can one define a "done" article on here and how many will be protected on a trial basis.
Regards,
Zachary Harden
From: Bryan Derksen bryan.derksen@shaw.ca Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2005 17:29:02 -0700
Phroziac wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the minority thing, but it is pretty funny. I completely agree with locking completed articles. Why should they be edited if they're done?
A "done" article? There's no such thing.
I hope Jimbo's just been misleadingly quoted, personally. I would like to see a system whereby versions of an article can be marked as "nice" so that it's really easy to get to the most recent "nice" version. Perhaps even have the "nice" version be the default one shown to non-logged-in users and/or users who set a preference for that, with the edit link still taking the user to the current version instead. But I think officially permanently locking an article because someone thinks that it's "done" is a tremendously bad idea. Article protection is a very blunt instrument, blunter even than user bans, and I believe using it this way would damage Wikipedia far worse than any vandalism it might prevent.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
If Jimbo spoke to a German paper, could there have been a screw up in the translation? Also, how do I get on/join an IRC? TIA
Regards,
Zachary Harden
From: Phroziac phroziac@gmail.com Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] What's wrong with the world? Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 20:22:14 -0400
As was mentioned in #wikimania on IRC, jimbo IS mistakenly misquoted, but nobody really knows what he said. He's been requested to debunk the screwups already.
On 06/08/05, Phroziac phroziac@gmail.com wrote:
As was mentioned in #wikimania on IRC, jimbo IS mistakenly misquoted, but nobody really knows what he said. He's been requested to debunk the screwups already.
From [[Wikipedia:Announcements]]
"Numerous news outlets are quoting a Reuters report that Jimmy Wales has stated that there will be a "freeze" on editing. Jimbo says that statements about methods for achieving the widely-discussed stable "Wikipedia 1.0" were misinterpreted as implying a project-wide lockdown. Wikipedia's open editing will continue for the forseeable future, and any potential stablized version would exist alongside the current system. Jimbo was last seen looking for the 'edit this page' link on the Reuters article."
<g>
Zachary Harden wrote:
And how can we mark it as even nice? A template could disrupt the page, but IMHO, any type of mark on the article page is just asking for trouble. Plus, I still do not know how can one define a "done" article on here and how many will be protected on a trial basis.
Something based on the version rating system that almost got enabled in the most recent version of WikiMedia would be best, IMO - it's my understanding that the basic code is all there, it just needs tweaking and polishing. Trying to kludge something together with the existing functions probably wouldn't work well since there's no way to attach arbitrary metadata to specific versions of a page.
Seems like a cool idea. But given any "Wikipedia 1.0" agenda, and putting aside for a moment the aspects of being entirely unwiki and oxymoronical, there are a few general ways that this could take shape AISI:
* Unwikipedia academic fork: Separate parallel wiki with Google ads and paid academics working on polishing wikipedia articles. Code would allow for easy viewing and merging of Wikipedia and Unwikipedia articles
* Ghost of Nupedia (aka. Nupedia's Monster): On-wiki institution of Nupedia-style credentialism. Ranking of academic degrees by type: conservative American Ivy League institutions first, everyone else second, all the way down to mail-order degrees from North Korea.
* Perma-Protectionism: Sysops are pruned by credentialsm (or less so trust), and allowed to protect and lock pages at will, banning anyone who even hints at a crackpot theory, poor spelling, or youthful ignorance.
* Paranoid Web of Trust: People get ranks (in addition to barnstars) and parade them proudly. Everyone sucks up to the Board members, and they eventually get military-style badges made to pin on their ©& Wikimedia Nohat-logo sweatshirts.
* PATRIOT ACT : Uniting and Strengthening Wikipedia by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Trollism Act of 2005
-SV
--- Bryan Derksen bryan.derksen@shaw.ca wrote:
Zachary Harden wrote:
And how can we mark it as even nice? A template
could disrupt the
page, but IMHO, any type of mark on the article
page is just asking
for trouble. Plus, I still do not know how can one
define a "done"
article on here and how many will be protected on
a trial basis.
Something based on the version rating system that almost got enabled in the most recent version of WikiMedia would be best, IMO - it's my understanding that the basic code is all there, it just needs tweaking and polishing. Trying to kludge something together with the existing functions probably wouldn't work well since there's no way to attach arbitrary metadata to specific versions of a page. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Unwikipedia sounds too much like Uncyclopedia. ;/
On 8/5/05, steve v vertigosteve@yahoo.com wrote:
Seems like a cool idea. But given any "Wikipedia 1.0" agenda, and putting aside for a moment the aspects of being entirely unwiki and oxymoronical, there are a few general ways that this could take shape AISI:
- Unwikipedia academic fork: Separate parallel wiki
with Google ads and paid academics working on polishing wikipedia articles. Code would allow for easy viewing and merging of Wikipedia and Unwikipedia articles
- Ghost of Nupedia (aka. Nupedia's Monster): On-wiki
institution of Nupedia-style credentialism. Ranking of academic degrees by type: conservative American Ivy League institutions first, everyone else second, all the way down to mail-order degrees from North Korea.
- Perma-Protectionism: Sysops are pruned by
credentialsm (or less so trust), and allowed to protect and lock pages at will, banning anyone who even hints at a crackpot theory, poor spelling, or youthful ignorance.
- Paranoid Web of Trust: People get ranks (in addition
to barnstars) and parade them proudly. Everyone sucks up to the Board members, and they eventually get military-style badges made to pin on their (c)&™ Wikimedia Nohat-logo sweatshirts.
- PATRIOT ACT : Uniting and Strengthening Wikipedia by
Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Trollism Act of 2005
-SV
--- Bryan Derksen bryan.derksen@shaw.ca wrote:
Zachary Harden wrote:
And how can we mark it as even nice? A template
could disrupt the
page, but IMHO, any type of mark on the article
page is just asking
for trouble. Plus, I still do not know how can one
define a "done"
article on here and how many will be protected on
a trial basis.
Something based on the version rating system that almost got enabled in the most recent version of WikiMedia would be best, IMO - it's my understanding that the basic code is all there, it just needs tweaking and polishing. Trying to kludge something together with the existing functions probably wouldn't work well since there's no way to attach arbitrary metadata to specific versions of a page. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160
steve v wrote:
- Ghost of Nupedia (aka. Nupedia's Monster): On-wiki institution of
Nupedia-style credentialism. Ranking of academic degrees by type: conservative American Ivy League institutions first, everyone else second, all the way down to mail-order degrees from North Korea.
fnord! Ranking of academic degrees by age of institution which offers them, with weighting based on age of faculty at that institution.
Anyway, the Ivy League is an athletics association.
- Paranoid Web of Trust: People get ranks (in addition to barnstars)
and parade them proudly. Everyone sucks up to the Board members, and they eventually get military-style badges made to pin on their ©&? Wikimedia Nohat-logo sweatshirts.
func's micronation is spreading :)
- -- Alphax | /"\ Encrypted Email Preferred | \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613 | X Against HTML email & vCards http://tinyurl.com/cc9up | / \
But athletes are smqrt.
On 8/6/05, Alphax alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
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steve v wrote:
- Ghost of Nupedia (aka. Nupedia's Monster): On-wiki institution of
Nupedia-style credentialism. Ranking of academic degrees by type: conservative American Ivy League institutions first, everyone else second, all the way down to mail-order degrees from North Korea.
fnord! Ranking of academic degrees by age of institution which offers them, with weighting based on age of faculty at that institution.
Anyway, the Ivy League is an athletics association.
- Paranoid Web of Trust: People get ranks (in addition to barnstars)
and parade them proudly. Everyone sucks up to the Board members, and they eventually get military-style badges made to pin on their (c)&? Wikimedia Nohat-logo sweatshirts.
func's micronation is spreading :)
Alphax | /"\ Encrypted Email Preferred | \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613 | X Against HTML email & vCards http://tinyurl.com/cc9up | / \ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFC9Dkw/RxM5Ph0xhMRAwadAJ9Dm5+NEi7qXxx9jTme+diAiZKEJQCeLvtU 2SQG95FrfEB/0TUiokyoo+o= =RgTp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Bryan Derksen (bryan.derksen@shaw.ca) [050806 09:58]:
Zachary Harden wrote:
And how can we mark it as even nice? A template could disrupt the page, but IMHO, any type of mark on the article page is just asking for trouble. Plus, I still do not know how can one define a "done" article on here and how many will be protected on a trial basis.
Something based on the version rating system that almost got enabled in the most recent version of WikiMedia would be best, IMO - it's my understanding that the basic code is all there, it just needs tweaking and polishing.
A bit worse than that - it puts horrible demands on the server and would promptly break Wikipedia if we dared enable it live ;-) It needs some serious algorithm optimisation for Brion to let it anywhere near live.
(Please! Someone! Someones!)
- d.
Ah, heres one....
In medicine, ENT represents the Ear, Nose, and Throat specialism, also known as otolaryngology. ENT may also refer to the television series Star Trek: Enterprise. Ents is also a term for a Student Union Entertainments Officer
...on [[ent]], lol. Is it just me or should ENT have primary disambig?
On 8/6/05, David Gerard fun@thingy.apana.org.au wrote:
Bryan Derksen (bryan.derksen@shaw.ca) [050806 09:58]:
Zachary Harden wrote:
And how can we mark it as even nice? A template could disrupt the page, but IMHO, any type of mark on the article page is just asking for trouble. Plus, I still do not know how can one define a "done" article on here and how many will be protected on a trial basis.
Something based on the version rating system that almost got enabled in the most recent version of WikiMedia would be best, IMO - it's my understanding that the basic code is all there, it just needs tweaking and polishing.
A bit worse than that - it puts horrible demands on the server and would promptly break Wikipedia if we dared enable it live ;-) It needs some serious algorithm optimisation for Brion to let it anywhere near live.
(Please! Someone! Someones!)
- d.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Actually, I was bold and that no longer has primary disambiguation.
On 8/7/05, Phroziac phroziac@gmail.com wrote:
Ah, heres one....
In medicine, ENT represents the Ear, Nose, and Throat specialism, also known as otolaryngology. ENT may also refer to the television series Star Trek: Enterprise. Ents is also a term for a Student Union Entertainments Officer
...on [[ent]], lol. Is it just me or should ENT have primary disambig?
On 8/6/05, David Gerard fun@thingy.apana.org.au wrote:
Bryan Derksen (bryan.derksen@shaw.ca) [050806 09:58]:
Zachary Harden wrote:
And how can we mark it as even nice? A template could disrupt the page, but IMHO, any type of mark on the article page is just asking for trouble. Plus, I still do not know how can one define a "done" article on here and how many will be protected on a trial basis.
Something based on the version rating system that almost got enabled in the most recent version of WikiMedia would be best, IMO - it's my understanding that the basic code is all there, it just needs tweaking and polishing.
A bit worse than that - it puts horrible demands on the server and would promptly break Wikipedia if we dared enable it live ;-) It needs some serious algorithm optimisation for Brion to let it anywhere near live.
(Please! Someone! Someones!)
- d.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
-- signature
Phroziac (phroziac@gmail.com) [050806 06:07]:
There's nothing wrong with the minority thing, but it is pretty funny. I completely agree with locking completed articles. Why should they be edited if they're done?
It's a thing called a "wiki" ...
If there's a particularly good version of an article, that version will always be in the history and can be linked to directly.
The quality vs content thing tends to go: OK article is polished into really well-written article. Someone adds something which is arguably relevant but looks lumpy in the structure. So the article has more detail, but is only good as opposed to great. Polish again to great. And so on.
As much as it pains me, I suspect more good information is better for the reader than beautiful composition, given the choice.
- d.
steve v wrote:
From [[ minority ]]:
''This article is about the concept of a minority. For an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority (song)|Minority]].''
!
If someone does want information on the single, what else would they type? Not everyone knows how disambiguations work.
"Green Day - Minority", of course
On 8/5/05, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
steve v wrote:
From [[ minority ]]:
''This article is about the concept of a minority. For an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority (song)|Minority]].''
!
If someone does want information on the single, what else would they type? Not everyone knows how disambiguations work. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Phroziac wrote:
On 8/5/05, SPUI drspui@gmail.com wrote:
steve v wrote:
From [[ minority ]]:
''This article is about the concept of a minority. For an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority (song)|Minority]].''
!
If someone does want information on the single, what else would they type? Not everyone knows how disambiguations work.
"Green Day - Minority", of course
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Green+Day+-+Minority&... gives no relevant results in the first page.
At 04:14 PM 8/5/2005, SPUI wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Green+Day+-+Minority&... gives no relevant results in the first page.
But the Google site search does: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awikipedia.org+Green+Day+Mino...
Chl
steve v (vertigosteve@yahoo.com) [050806 05:49]:
From [[ minority ]]: ''This article is about the concept of a minority. For an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority (song)|Minority]].'' !
Heh. In cases like that, {{otheruses}} on the main article and a disambig with two entries seems entirely sensible to me ;-)
- d.
On 8/7/05, David Gerard fun@thingy.apana.org.au wrote:
steve v (vertigosteve@yahoo.com) [050806 05:49]:
From [[ minority ]]: ''This article is about the concept of a minority. For an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority (song)|Minority]].'' !
Heh. In cases like that, {{otheruses}} on the main article and a disambig with two entries seems entirely sensible to me ;-)
Done and done.
Stephen Bain (stephen.bain@gmail.com) [050815 05:51]:
On 8/7/05, David Gerard fun@thingy.apana.org.au wrote:
steve v (vertigosteve@yahoo.com) [050806 05:49]:
From [[ minority ]]: ''This article is about the concept of a minority. For an entry on the [[Green Day]] single, see [[Minority (song)|Minority]].'' !
Heh. In cases like that, {{otheruses}} on the main article and a disambig with two entries seems entirely sensible to me ;-)
Done and done.
And in the case of [[Clear (Scientology)]], I wrote the article then created a disambig at [[Clear]].
Editorial judgement. It's lots more fun than policy!
- d.