---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: SlimVirgin slimvirgin@gmail.com Date: 27 Nov 2007 20:06 Subject: (offlist) Re: [WikiEN-l] Missed Opportunities to have avoided the Durova Case To: David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
David, would you or one of the other moderators please forward this reply to the mailing list?
Sarah
From: Christiano Moreschi moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk Date: Nov 27, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Missed Opportunities to have avoided the Durova Case To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Oh? I remain to be convinced. Why, then, did Durova think it quite alright to post her evidence to !! to this list? Why do we have good people, like Krimpet, being attacked on this mailing list? Why do we have two of our finest, Thatcher131 and Alison (now a CU), signing up to this list and then rapidly unsubscribing when they find it wasn't, after all, that it was cooked up to be. In fact, Alison memorably described it as chock-full of "bitterness, anger and wikipolitics". Oh dear.
How do you know Alison said this? Are you aware that she has stated clearly she was not a member of the list?
And why, then, did we think it quite alright to set up a bastard child to wpcyberstalking, wpinvestigations-1? This little list I know quite a lot about - I've seen some truly bizarre and quite terrifying conversations, including some posts that make you wonder how on earth something like the block of !! didn't happen a lot earlier. Sockpuppet paranoia, investigation obsession, weird suggestions for the CUs galore - it's got the lot, baby. In fact, Thatcher summed this wretched list up very nicely: "...unhelpful and possible dangerous development. Blocks and such should be discussed and documented on Wiki whenever possible. In extraordinary circumstances evidence may need to be kept private, but those cases should be dealt with by Arbcom, who were elected for that purpose, rather than a group of self-selected investigators who may lack proper perspective."
Wikipedia is not a MMORG for SlimVirgin to play webmaster to.
Moreschi, whoever your informant is, they're not giving you an accurate picture. First, I had almost nothing to do with the investigations list and have virtually no knowledge of it. My recollection is that I posted to it once, and that was recently to say I had no interest in it. If it was more than once, it wasn't very much more. And your description of the cyberstalking discussion group is just plain wrong.
I'd appreciate it if you'd quit with the SlimVirgin's-to-blame-for-everything meme that certain individuals love to promote. Its only effect is to muddy the issues you're trying to clarify, so it's in no-one's interests, except for the people who grab any opportunity to attack me. I hope you're not playing to that gallery.
I'm not a subscriber to this list, so if anyone wants me to read replies, please cc me.
Sarah
Alison was a member of cyberstalking for a brief period. I was referring to that mailing list, not investigations. My relaying of her comments is accurate. Talk to her if you doubt me. I have, sitting in front of my eyes, her "resignation" email, addressed to wpcyberstalking@wikia.com, FFS! Stuck onto the bottom of that is your email lambasting Krimpet!
Oh, and your recollection of certain other events isn't entirely accurate either. "First, I had almost nothing to do with the investigations list and have virtually no knowledge of it". This is, in fact, simply not true. I have in front my eyes a fair few of your posts to that list, which nicely display you fully aware of that list and actively participating in the merry "sleuthing". My picture is crystal-clear - my own eyes! 5 or 6 posts? Ok, not massive, but really quite busy.
Now, I fully accept that the somewhat negative picture of wpcyberstalking I've built up may not be entirely fair. This is the problem with incompetent secrecy - people like myself wind up with false notions. By keeping everything SO very hush-hush you've created more problems for yourself than you've solved. When bad things happen the rest of us, shivering in non-clique cold, automatically assume the worst. Transparency is the mother of acceptance. Imagine if the wikichix mailing list had been kept secret. Can you imagine the fury that would have been then unleashed by man's latent distrust of woman? As it is, everyone's fine with it. Same situation here.
Right. Now, final thing. You aren't to blame for everything, but you are responsible for quite a lot. IMO you've become a net drain, with more drama being caused than problems solved. We're all sick of it. For all the good you've done - in the name of God - go!
CM
P.S - that list that's wound up on Wikipedia Review of wpinvestigations-l's membership. Please believe me when I say I did not email WR, though that is recognizably the same list I'd let certain "trustworthy" people know of (oh dear, how awful that phrase sounds). Someone forwarded it to WR without my consent - not that I'm overly fussed, I'm afraid. Now the smoke and mirrors have been dispensed of, we can communicate in a spirit of greater integrity.
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:53:39 +0000 From: dgerard@gmail.com To: wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: Re: Missed Opportunities to have avoided the Durova Case
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: SlimVirgin slimvirgin@gmail.com Date: 27 Nov 2007 20:06 Subject: (offlist) Re: [WikiEN-l] Missed Opportunities to have avoided the Durova Case To: David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
David, would you or one of the other moderators please forward this reply to the mailing list?
Sarah
From: Christiano Moreschi moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk Date: Nov 27, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Missed Opportunities to have avoided the Durova Case To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Oh? I remain to be convinced. Why, then, did Durova think it quite alright to post her evidence to !! to this list? Why do we have good people, like Krimpet, being attacked on this mailing list? Why do we have two of our finest, Thatcher131 and Alison (now a CU), signing up to this list and then rapidly unsubscribing when they find it wasn't, after all, that it was cooked up to be. In fact, Alison memorably described it as chock-full of "bitterness, anger and wikipolitics". Oh dear.
How do you know Alison said this? Are you aware that she has stated clearly she was not a member of the list?
And why, then, did we think it quite alright to set up a bastard child to wpcyberstalking, wpinvestigations-1? This little list I know quite a lot about - I've seen some truly bizarre and quite terrifying conversations, including some posts that make you wonder how on earth something like the block of !! didn't happen a lot earlier. Sockpuppet paranoia, investigation obsession, weird suggestions for the CUs galore - it's got the lot, baby. In fact, Thatcher summed this wretched list up very nicely: "...unhelpful and possible dangerous development. Blocks and such should be discussed and documented on Wiki whenever possible. In extraordinary circumstances evidence may need to be kept private, but those cases should be dealt with by Arbcom, who were elected for that purpose, rather than a group of self-selected investigators who may lack proper perspective."
Wikipedia is not a MMORG for SlimVirgin to play webmaster to.
Moreschi, whoever your informant is, they're not giving you an accurate picture. First, I had almost nothing to do with the investigations list and have virtually no knowledge of it. My recollection is that I posted to it once, and that was recently to say I had no interest in it. If it was more than once, it wasn't very much more. And your description of the cyberstalking discussion group is just plain wrong.
I'd appreciate it if you'd quit with the SlimVirgin's-to-blame-for-everything meme that certain individuals love to promote. Its only effect is to muddy the issues you're trying to clarify, so it's in no-one's interests, except for the people who grab any opportunity to attack me. I hope you're not playing to that gallery.
I'm not a subscriber to this list, so if anyone wants me to read replies, please cc me.
Sarah
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