-----Original Message----- From: John Lee [mailto:johnleemk@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 06:21 AM To: 'English Wikipedia' Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Another "BADSITES" controversy
On 5/28/07, Daniel R. Tobias dan@tobias.name wrote:
The latest skirmish in the never-ending civil war over linking to so- called "attack sites" is the one where [[User:Will Beback]] has taken onto himself to purge Wikipedia of all links to the site of notable science fiction editor [[Teresa Nielsen Hayden]], even though they are used as reliable sources for quite a number of diverse things, because in her blog she attacked Beback (she seems to have some issues with Wikipedia in general).
This has in turn spurred a renewed edit-war over whether the anti- attack-site section should even be in the WP:NPA page, and the page is now under protection again as a result.
See my essay for more on the issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dtobias/Why_BADSITES_is_bad_policy
Why the hell is BADSITES being enforced so mindlessly and so religiously and so utterly retardedly? It's completely beyond me. Anyone with a shred of common sense can see that the status quo, enforced by a group of well-meaning zealots who I am tempted to label idiots as well (but will not, for the sake of civility), is not serving the encyclopaedia.
Johnleemk
This sort of thing, banning links to external sites, if done at all, needs to be limited to sites that extend their activities beyond criticism of Wikipedia to actions that hurt individual Wikipedia users. The blog seems to focus on publicizing Will Beback's real name which she got from ED. She is offended at his interactions with her when she edits.
Fred
----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Bauder" fredbaud@waterwiki.info To: "English Wikipedia" wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Another"BADSITES"controversy
-----Original Message----- From: John Lee [mailto:johnleemk@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 06:21 AM To: 'English Wikipedia' Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Another "BADSITES" controversy
On 5/28/07, Daniel R. Tobias dan@tobias.name wrote:
The latest skirmish in the never-ending civil war over linking to so- called "attack sites" is the one where [[User:Will Beback]] has taken onto himself to purge Wikipedia of all links to the site of notable science fiction editor [[Teresa Nielsen Hayden]], even though they are used as reliable sources for quite a number of diverse things, because in her blog she attacked Beback (she seems to have some issues with Wikipedia in general).
This has in turn spurred a renewed edit-war over whether the anti- attack-site section should even be in the WP:NPA page, and the page is now under protection again as a result.
See my essay for more on the issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dtobias/Why_BADSITES_is_bad_policy
Why the hell is BADSITES being enforced so mindlessly and so religiously and so utterly retardedly? It's completely beyond me. Anyone with a shred of common sense can see that the status quo, enforced by a group of well-meaning zealots who I am tempted to label idiots as well (but will not, for the sake of civility), is not serving the encyclopaedia.
Johnleemk
This sort of thing, banning links to external sites, if done at all, needs to be limited to sites that extend their activities beyond criticism of Wikipedia to actions that hurt individual Wikipedia users. The blog seems to focus on publicizing Will Beback's real name which she got from ED. She is offended at his interactions with her when she edits.
Fred
"The blog seems to focus on publicizing Will Beback's real name which she got from ED."?? Good God, Fred, have you ever actually READ Making Light? I presume the present argument is regarding the thread "Grep that spool" which started on 5th May (where *I* have a couple of comments), and the present "attack sites" dispute is commented on from comment no. 205 onwards. It would be educational for some people on Wikipedia to read how outsiders perceive them.
Apart from that one thread, which I think may well be the only one which even mentions Wikipedia, current threads on the front page concern: - 25 May - Persons held without trial or access to an attorney in Iran (33 comments) - 25 May - Thomas Macaulays' speech to the UK Parliament in 1841 on copyright; current US copyright policy; fanfiction and copyright; disclaimers. (148 comments) - 23 May - News about FanLib, a site which claims to show how to make money from fanfiction. (58 comments) - 23 May - A note on how the urban human population of the planet is estimated to have exceeded the rural population for the first time today. (124 comments). - 23 May - Al Qaeda in Iraq? (58 comments). - 22 May - "The sky isn't evil, try looking up" - a rant from Joss Whedon of Buffy the Vampire Slayer fame. (508 comments) - 22 May - Fanfiction, Monetized - the first discussion of FanLib (see 23 May). (197 comments) - 20 May - Your book in print - forever. Proposed changes in Simon & Schusters' policy regarding reversion of rights to authors (64 comments). - 19 May - Reassessing Congressman Ron Paul. (52 comments). - 15 May - Not just an alternative version of the VFW (10 comments) - 15 May - Jerry Falwell (316 comments) - 12 May - If terrorists didn't exist, we'd have to invent them (300 comments) - 7 May - Engaging in congress (International Congress on Medieval Studies) (91 comments) - 7 May - The scent of astroturf (legal cases) (59 comments) - 7 May - Live in New York City, it's Whisperado (20 comments) - 5 May - Grep that spool (the Wikipedia thread) (218 comments) - 5 May - CBS surrenders to racist commenters (61 comments) - 5 May - Viva el Cinco de Mayo (59 comments) - 5 May - We can regurgitate it for you wholesale! (Philip K Dick omnibus edition) (102 comments) - 5 May - Open thread 84 (691 comments) - 5 May - Discussion of EW.com's list of top 25 science fiction TV shows and movies of the last 25 years (447 comments) - 3 May - Framing the DMCA (the 09F0 number controversy) (169 comments) - 2 May - Getting Patrick Neilsen Hayden to go to the dentist (84 comments) - 2 May - Cryptome.org loses its ISP (29 comments) - 2 May - The Oxford Dictionary of Science Fiction (34 comments) - 1 May - Report on the Current Cultural Status of Our Beloved Genre - Mitt Romney's professed "favorite novel" is "Battlefield Earth"!! (511 comments) - 1 May - Google trends (55 comments). - 1 May - Seeking a westward route to the Crunchberry Islands (28 comments) - 30 April - Reminder to get PNH to go to the dentist. (106 comments) - 28 April - The Evil Overlord applauds - on teaching aspiring authors that the important thing is to get the story started. (312 comments).
It is absolutely nonsensical, and indeed potentially libellous, to characterise Making Light as an "attack site" and focussing on publicising WBB's real name - as I hope I have demonstrated the Wikipedia thread is a very minor part of the whole of Making Light's coverage, which indeed is why the site has been on my bookmark list for several years now. Some Wikipedians need to develop a thicker skin and a sense of proportion, and BADSITES needs to be thrown in the bin.