We're not here to get insight from interactions with Nazis or anyone else, we're here to write an encyclopedia. If we need insight about Nazis to improve Wikipedia articles, then we should get it from the many, many published works about Nazis and not from having chats with them (which would be original research anyway).
We're not here to convert Nazis to sanity with Wikilove either. While I admire anyone stubborn and capable enough to try to save a racist, that's simply not our job.
We're here to write Nazis should be banned not just because they are a particularly nasty form of human virus, but because they will inevitably interfere with our goals. They will waste the time of editors who must undo their vandalism, argue with them, explain the rules, do research to refute their crackpot nonsense, etc., etc. We're here to write accurate, NPOV encyclopedia articles, and anyone who interferes with that goal should be booted, including Nazis, vandals, trolls, social experimenters, and Anonymoose.
Michael Turley michael.turley at gmail.com: As much as we dislike their views, it is likely that Nazis and neo-Nazis will give us better insight into their own views, and improve the articles related to those viewpoints.
Geoff Burling llywrch at agora.rdrop.com: What's the best that can happen? Maybe this Neo-Nazi isn't as firm in his beliefs as he might think -- or simply has never been exposed to other people different from him -- & his experience on Wikipedia convinces him to abandon these beliefs.
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--- Rob gamaliel8@yahoo.com wrote:
Nazis should be banned not just because they are a particularly nasty form of human virus
You also wrote earlier in this thread that:
For the record, yes, I am in support of oppressing Nazis with every legal means at our disposal, and perhaps some illegal ones if we get really bored.
You should be aware that you're beginning to sound an awful lot like the very people you oppose. Do not make any more comments of this nature in this forum. We certainly wouldn't allow neo-Nazis to post such comments (mutatis mutandis).
but because they will inevitably interfere with our goals.
I believe it is utterly wrong to bar people from Wikipedia because of what views they hold, regardless of how unpopular or repellent those views are. Moreover, I think it would hinder us in our goal of building a complete and NPOV encyclopedia to do so.
-- Matt [[User:Matt Crypto]]
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Matt_Crypto Blog: http://cipher-text.blogspot.com
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Nazis should be banned not just because they are a particularly nasty form of human virus, but because they will inevitably interfere with our goals.
Nazis are individual human beings. A sentient person will not 'inevitably' behave badly on Wikipedia because she belongs to a particular sect or adheres to a particular ideology.
And please choose your metaphors with more care. The idea of a human virus is familiar and somewhat unpleasant.
- - - - - The purpose of National Socialism, according to Hitler, was to "maintain the life of Germany." He called Germany a "corporate body," a "single organism" that consisted of the German people as cells of this organism. The Jewish people also constituted cells of the national organism. These cells, however, made no contribution to the life of Germany. Rather, as bacteria, viruses and parasites, they lived and fed off the body politic, draining the nation of its energy and capacity to exist. ... On the evening of February 22, 1942, Hitler met with Himmler and a Danish SS major and expounded his conviction that the "discovery of the Jewish virus" was one of the "greatest revolutions that has taken place in the world." The battle in which the Nazis were engaged, he said, was of the "same sort as the battle waged, during the last century, by Pasteur and Koch." How many diseases, he declared, have their origin in the Jewish virus! "We shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jew." - http://tinyurl.com/cn5zg - - - - -
Regards, Haukur
--- Rob gamaliel8@yahoo.com wrote: On 8/25/05, Haukur Þorgeirsson haukurth@hi.is wrote:
Nazis should be banned not just because they are a particularly nasty form of human virus, but because they will inevitably interfere with our goals.
Nazis are individual human beings. A sentient person will not 'inevitably' behave badly on Wikipedia because she belongs to a particular sect or adheres to a particular ideology.
And please choose your metaphors with more care. The idea of a human virus is familiar and somewhat unpleasant.
The purpose of National Socialism, according to Hitler, was to "maintain the life of Germany." He called Germany a "corporate body," a "single organism" that consisted of the German people as cells of this organism. The Jewish people also constituted cells of the national organism. These cells, however, made no contribution to the life of Germany. Rather, as bacteria, viruses and parasites, they lived and fed off the body politic, draining the nation of its energy and capacity to exist. ... On the evening of February 22, 1942, Hitler met with Himmler and a Danish SS major and expounded his conviction that the "discovery of the Jewish virus" was one of the "greatest revolutions that has taken place in the world." The battle in which the Nazis were engaged, he said, was of the "same sort as the battle waged, during the last century, by Pasteur and Koch." How many diseases, he declared, have their origin in the Jewish virus! "We shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jew." - http://tinyurl.com/cn5zg
Regards, Haukur
Well said, Haukur. Recognition of individuality, even in the face of extreme challenge, is the primary key to retaining the moral high ground over all Nazi and Nazi-like groups.
And further, if we adopt Nazi ideas and tactics*, in doing so, we also adopt their morals.
*(demonization of groups, pre-banning, and expelling them from our realm based on beliefs rather than behavior)
On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 08:43:12AM -0400, Michael Turley wrote:
And further, if we adopt Nazi ideas and tactics*, in doing so, we also adopt their morals.
Right on. And that extends to vandalizing their wiki, too.
If they're violating our copyrights, folks should contact their ISP with a DMCA takedown notice or something. Putting up "Adolf Hitler on Wheels was a gay Martian Jew" pages is just stooping to their level.
Heh, and THEY are calling people subhuman.
On 8/25/05, Michael Turley michael.turley@gmail.com wrote:
--- Rob gamaliel8@yahoo.com wrote: On 8/25/05, Haukur Þorgeirsson haukurth@hi.is wrote:
Nazis should be banned not just because they are a particularly nasty form of human virus, but because they will inevitably interfere with our goals.
Nazis are individual human beings. A sentient person will not 'inevitably' behave badly on Wikipedia because she belongs to a particular sect or adheres to a particular ideology.
And please choose your metaphors with more care. The idea of a human virus is familiar and somewhat unpleasant.
The purpose of National Socialism, according to Hitler, was to "maintain the life of Germany." He called Germany a "corporate body," a "single organism" that consisted of the German people as cells of this organism. The Jewish people also constituted cells of the national organism. These cells, however, made no contribution to the life of Germany. Rather, as bacteria, viruses and parasites, they lived and fed off the body politic, draining the nation of its energy and capacity to exist. ... On the evening of February 22, 1942, Hitler met with Himmler and a Danish SS major and expounded his conviction that the "discovery of the Jewish virus" was one of the "greatest revolutions that has taken place in the world." The battle in which the Nazis were engaged, he said, was of the "same sort as the battle waged, during the last century, by Pasteur and Koch." How many diseases, he declared, have their origin in the Jewish virus! "We shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jew." - http://tinyurl.com/cn5zg
Regards, Haukur
Well said, Haukur. Recognition of individuality, even in the face of extreme challenge, is the primary key to retaining the moral high ground over all Nazi and Nazi-like groups.
And further, if we adopt Nazi ideas and tactics*, in doing so, we also adopt their morals.
*(demonization of groups, pre-banning, and expelling them from our realm based on beliefs rather than behavior)
-- Michael Turley User:Unfocused _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l