On 10/18/05, Phil Boswell phil.boswell@gmail.com wrote: [snip]
I would hate for an opportunity like this, of getting something really useful up and running really quickly, to be lost while we dither.
I don't see how it's going to be lost, is there another free encyclopedia that they'll partner with if we don't slather wikipedia with externals to them?
I suspect that, like myself, many people have a hard time getting excited about filling up wikipedia with more externals rather than enhancing the value of Wikipedia directly.
Geodata in articles about subjects which have a definite location belongs in Wikipedia, that much is clear. I don't think its at all clear that we need to undertake a large effort to integrate with a third party site which is providing a service we should ultimately provide ourselves.
On 10/18/05, Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/18/05, Phil Boswell phil.boswell@gmail.com wrote: [snip]
I would hate for an opportunity like this, of getting something really useful up and running really quickly, to be lost while we dither.
I don't see how it's going to be lost, is there another free encyclopedia that they'll partner with if we don't slather wikipedia with externals to them?
I suspect that, like myself, many people have a hard time getting excited about filling up wikipedia with more externals rather than enhancing the value of Wikipedia directly.
Geodata in articles about subjects which have a definite location belongs in Wikipedia, that much is clear. I don't think its at all clear that we need to undertake a large effort to integrate with a third party site which is providing a service we should ultimately provide ourselves.
I agree. I hate to pour cold water on what would be very cool and potentially useful.
But if you've used Placeopedia, you'll notice it's not wiki.
While you can place a "pin" on their map and link to a Wikipedia article, you cannot directly change another person's contribution if you have an issue with it. You have to fill out a form and an alternate location which gets submitted. The process thereafter is unknown.
Who are the folks mediating that decision? Suddenly we would have Wikipedia pointing (en mass) to a map system controlled by a single person/entity. There is not much information on their site, other than to mail "team@placeopedia.com." The "mysociety.org" site which sponsors it points to Tom Steinberg as the project leader.
But given Wikipedia's tradition of openess and transparency, a strong link to Placeopedia, the way it operates now would seem to be rather incompatible with that idea.
-Andrew
I hate to bring this up again (yawn) but Wikipedians may need to read the latest rant placed on my talk page by Skyring. Apart from diluded fantasies (apparently I'm creating sockpuppet accounts - a bizarre allegation from someone who created 18 sockpuppets to attack my talk page with in 2 hours (yes two hours!) A really big thanks BTW to all those who kept reverting reverting reverting. It was appreciated.
He did state that, notwithstanding his ban, he is continuing to edit Wikipedia at will, and "You've spent several months expressing this hope that I will leave Wikipedia and quit pointing out your errors, and I wonder when the message will finally sink in that it's not going to happen."
Wikipedia clearly needs to work out some sort of strategy for dealing with stalkers like Skyring (who BTW is so off the wall he actually accused another Wikipedian of physically stalking his house!!!) At this stage he appears to be more than just a buffoon making a fool of himself but a potential threat to people on Wikipedia.
Anyway - here is what he wrote. At the bottom is just three hours of the bombardment my page is under from that idiot. (Apologies for the length of this msg BTW but you need to see what is going on.)
Thom
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+ Again, I'm glad to see you've returned to editing here overtly. Your research is good and your edits are generally a credit to Wikipedia, though perhaps the less said about stuff like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Presidential_Inauguration_%28Irela... this] the better! + + We need to talk about your recent behaviour. It's not just the blast of vile hatred directed at me, it's your behaviour as an admin that really bothers me. As an admin you shouldn't use your powers to take part in personal disputes, or to win edit wars. That's just plain wrong. + + In your [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-May/003335.html acceptance of sysop nomination] you talk of "highest standards of accuracy, inpartiality and correctness", "an absolute determination NOT in any way to personally abuse the responsibilities", and that these are responsibilities you "would take very seriously". + + You published my personal details here on 1 September, restored them twice over when others deleted them, locked your page in an attempt to stop them being removed again, and when another admin unlocked the page and removed them, you then attempted to justify your actions [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_notice... here]. Regardless of how you feel about me, this sort of behaviour is never justified. + + You then logged out, created [[User:AULDBITCH_LOVES_YOU|this sockpuppet account]], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mackensen&diff=prev&o... vandalised] another user's page, logged out again and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:AULDBITCH_LOVES_YOU&actio... commented] on the sockpuppet's page, claiming that I had driven you off Wikipedia and was now attacking another user. Then, in case nobody noticed, you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_notice... made the same allegations] on [[WP:ANI]]. In fact, there was no evidence at all to link me with your actions, as an examination of your accusations reveals. + + How do I know it was you? I can't check the IP addresses of the sockpuppet(s) you created. But if we look at the [http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=83.71.15.181+ Dublin-based] anon's [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=8... edits], we can find a clear link with you through those edits of [[Talk:Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall]], looking at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Camilla%2C_Duchess_of_Cornwal... edits made within a few minutes of another] on 23 August. + + For confirmation, I asked David Gerard, who has access to the IPs. David looked up the IP address and uncovered your shenanigans. Perhaps he would like to publish his findings. + + But before we get to that stage, I'd like to ask you to make a clean breast of it, and explain exactly how you think you can continue to be an admin after this sort of atrocious behaviour. Your actions are far worse than anything I've done. + + It is clear to me, and to anyone who has followed your career, that although you value sysop power very highly, you put the responsibilities associated with it at a lower priority than your own vanity. + + For that reason, although I ask for an apology to me for all the injustices you have committed, I don't expect to receive one. Instead I expect to see more of your peculiar circular reasoning in the edit summaries as you repeatedly revert this message, and when you are finally moved to make some self-serving comment, it will be to express the vain hope that I will give up. You've spent several months expressing this hope that I will leave Wikipedia and quit pointing out your errors, and I wonder when the message will finally sink in that it's not going to happen. + + I enjoy contributing far too much to leave the project and apart from the usual sort of minor spelling corrections I do to amuse myself, I've made substantial contributions under other accounts, as I am quite sure that David Gerard would tell you, if he wasn't quite so discreet about revealing personal information. + + So I'm not going to leave, and I don't expect you to. We can make life difficult for each other, or we can find a solution, but we aren't going to make any progress without a bit of honesty on your part.
# (cur) (last) 02:09, 19 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 144.131.119.224 to last version by Splash) # (cur) (last) 02:09, 19 October 2005 144.131.119.224 # (cur) (last) 02:02, 19 October 2005 Splash m (Reverted edits by 144.131.118.34 to last version by Splash) # (cur) (last) 02:02, 19 October 2005 144.131.118.34 # (cur) (last) 02:00, 19 October 2005 Splash m (Reverted edits by 143.238.244.219 to last version by Splash) # (cur) (last) 02:00, 19 October 2005 143.238.244.219 # (cur) (last) 01:57, 19 October 2005 Splash m (Reverted edits by 203.51.30.162 to last version by Splash) # (cur) (last) 01:56, 19 October 2005 203.51.30.162 # (cur) (last) 01:56, 19 October 2005 Splash m (Reverted edits by 203.51.30.162 to last version by Fvw) # (cur) (last) 01:55, 19 October 2005 203.51.30.162 # (cur) (last) 01:54, 19 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 203.51.25.117 to last version by Splash) # (cur) (last) 01:49, 19 October 2005 203.51.25.117 (More eyes! Anyone want to answer for Jim?) # (cur) (last) 01:47, 19 October 2005 Splash m (Reverted edits by 203.51.25.194 to last version by Fvw) # (cur) (last) 01:47, 19 October 2005 203.51.25.194 # (cur) (last) 01:46, 19 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 203.51.25.169 to last version by Jtdirl) # (cur) (last) 01:46, 19 October 2005 203.51.25.169 (We need to talk, Jim. you can't keep hiding from the truth.) # (cur) (last) 01:44, 19 October 2005 Jtdirl m (Reverted edits by 203.51.25.90 to last version by Fvw) # (cur) (last) 01:42, 19 October 2005 203.51.25.90 # (cur) (last) 01:41, 19 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 203.51.25.90 to last version by Fvw) # (cur) (last) 01:40, 19 October 2005 203.51.25.90 # (cur) (last) 01:40, 19 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 203.51.25.229 to last version by Fvw) # (cur) (last) 01:38, 19 October 2005 203.51.25.229 (While you're awake, Jim, could you take a moment to have a word about your behaviour?) # (cur) (last) 00:50, 19 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 143.238.245.172 to last version by Fvw) # (cur) (last) 00:50, 19 October 2005 143.238.245.172 # (cur) (last) 00:49, 19 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 143.238.245.133 to last version by Kiand) # (cur) (last) 00:48, 19 October 2005 143.238.245.133 (I know perfectly well what I'm doing, thanks.) # (cur) (last) 00:47, 19 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring, who doesn't seem to realise that 3RR doesn't apply when a user is banned, as their edits are to be reverted) # (cur) (last) 00:45, 19 October 2005 143.238.245.143 (Your persistent mindless reversion is impressive, but aren't you getting a little close to 3RR?) # (cur) (last) 00:42, 19 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring) # (cur) (last) 00:41, 19 October 2005 143.238.245.220 # (cur) (last) 00:40, 19 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring) # (cur) (last) 00:39, 19 October 2005 203.51.24.43 # (cur) (last) 00:38, 19 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 143.238.245.206 to last version by Fvw) # (cur) (last) 00:36, 19 October 2005 143.238.245.206 (NPA, please!) # (cur) (last) 00:35, 19 October 2005 Fvw (restore edits by rd232) # (cur) (last) 00:34, 19 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring, who obviously doesn't know the meaning of the word 'banned', or how much of a fecking 8 year old he's acting) # (cur) (last) 00:33, 19 October 2005 Rd232 (Omar Abu Omar) # (cur) (last) 00:32, 19 October 2005 143.238.245.140 # (cur) (last) 00:30, 19 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring) # (cur) (last) 00:27, 19 October 2005 143.238.245.140 # (cur) (last) 00:24, 19 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring) # (cur) (last) 00:23, 19 October 2005 143.238.244.40 # (cur) (last) 00:22, 19 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring) # (cur) (last) 00:20, 19 October 2005 143.238.244.40 # (cur) (last) 22:45, 18 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring) # (cur) (last) 22:43, 18 October 2005 143.238.244.68 # (cur) (last) 22:16, 18 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 203.51.32.57 to last version by Kiand) # (cur) (last) 22:16, 18 October 2005 203.51.32.57 # (cur) (last) 22:15, 18 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring) # (cur) (last) 22:13, 18 October 2005 203.51.32.57 # (cur) (last) 22:13, 18 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 203.51.32.57 to last version by Fvw) # (cur) (last) 22:11, 18 October 2005 203.51.32.57 # (cur) (last) 22:10, 18 October 2005 Fvw m (Reverted edits by 203.51.32.244 to last version by Kiand) # (cur) (last) 22:10, 18 October 2005 203.51.32.244 # (cur) (last) 22:09, 18 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring) # (cur) (last) 22:06, 18 October 2005 203.51.30.100 # (cur) (last) 22:05, 18 October 2005 Kiand (rv/edits by banned user Skyring) # (cur) (last) 22:03, 18 October 2005 203.51.31.37
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On 10/19/05, Tom Cadden thomcadden@yahoo.ie wrote:
He did state that, notwithstanding his ban, he is continuing to edit Wikipedia at will, and "You've spent several months expressing this hope that I will leave Wikipedia and quit pointing out your errors, and I wonder when the message will finally sink in that it's not going to happen."
I think we need to band together and revert him whenever we see him. Either that or block all of australia ;-)
Wikipedia clearly needs to work out some sort of strategy for dealing with stalkers like Skyring (who BTW is so off the wall he actually accused another Wikipedian of physically stalking his house!!!)
Oh he's a complete nutter.
At
this stage he appears to be more than just a buffoon making a fool of himself but a potential threat to people on Wikipedia.
I agree. He will drive people away.
Theresa
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Theresa Knott wrote:
On 10/19/05, Tom Cadden thomcadden@yahoo.ie wrote:
He did state that, notwithstanding his ban, he is continuing to edit Wikipedia at will, and "You've spent several months expressing this hope that I will leave Wikipedia and quit pointing out your errors, and I wonder when the message will finally sink in that it's not going to happen."
I think we need to band together and revert him whenever we see him. Either that or block all of australia ;-)
We could equally block the UK for being home of the NTL proxy situation and the US as being home of the AOL proxy situation :)
Wikipedia clearly needs to work out some sort of strategy for dealing with stalkers like Skyring (who BTW is so off the wall he actually accused another Wikipedian of physically stalking his house!!!)
Oh he's a complete nutter.
Agreed. However, I'm sure we could arrange a visit by ASIO...
- -- Alphax | /"\ Encrypted Email Preferred | \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613 | X Against HTML email & vCards http://tinyurl.com/cc9up | / \
Who are the folks mediating that decision?
At the moment that's us, but for no greater reason than we happened to built it that way, and we weren't expecting many corrections, or indeed 6000 submissions in a couple of weeks. Making the corrections inteface open is no problem.
Suddenly we would have
Wikipedia pointing (en mass) to a map system controlled by a single person/entity. There is not much information on their site, other than to mail "team@placeopedia.com." The "mysociety.org" site which sponsors it points to Tom Steinberg as the project leader.
Hello!
But given Wikipedia's tradition of openess and transparency, a strong link to Placeopedia, the way it operates now would seem to be rather incompatible with that idea.
I think you might be confusing tablets of stone with 'the way we happened to build this project in a couple of days'. If you want it open, it'll be open. The only question is how to make such a revision interface work.
Tom