Well, I bit the bullet and moved Accusations section to the Talk page. We'll see what happens...
On 05/24/04 at 05:15 AM, Jimmy Wales jwales@bomis.com said:
I have no specific suggestions for the improvement of the article, other than more historical background and context, and less cataloguing of nonsense.
V.
On 05/24/04 at 05:09 PM, Viajero viajero@quilombo.nl said:
Well, I bit the bullet and moved Accusations section to the Talk page. We'll see what happens...
It was reverted by user Sam Spade half-hour later. Anyone care to lend a hand?
V.
Viajero a écrit:
On 05/24/04 at 05:09 PM, Viajero viajero@quilombo.nl said:
Well, I bit the bullet and moved Accusations section to the Talk page. We'll see what happens...
It was reverted by user Sam Spade half-hour later. Anyone care to lend a hand?
V.
Sam...
What about starting the contest of the article with the longest "neutrality dispute" heading ?
Viajero wrote:
On 05/24/04 at 05:09 PM, Viajero viajero@quilombo.nl said:
Well, I bit the bullet and moved Accusations section to the Talk page. We'll see what happens...
It was reverted by user Sam Spade half-hour later. Anyone care to lend a hand?
I was tempted to jump in. The article is a better criticism of the Americans than of the French. :-)
Ec
I tried. I am no fan of the French, but that article has crap in it that is not only false but almost no Americans believes. I think we will have to ask them to demonstrate some references. Perhaps some language, "A small misinformed minority of Americans believe...."
Fred
From: Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:20:45 -0700 To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]
I was tempted to jump in. The article is a better criticism of the Americans than of the French. :-)
Ec
I look with interest at Sam Spade serious attempts to NPOV this b*** :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_Unit...
Soon, we will be able to enlist it for "most brillant articles"
Fred Bauder a écrit:
I tried. I am no fan of the French, but that article has crap in it that is not only false but almost no Americans believes. I think we will have to ask them to demonstrate some references. Perhaps some language, "A small misinformed minority of Americans believe...."
Fred
From: Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:20:45 -0700 To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]
I was tempted to jump in. The article is a better criticism of the Americans than of the French. :-)
Ec
French men are largely homosexual/bisexual. (According to surveys American's male homosexual incidence is bigger than in French. This allegation may have arisen from the fact there are no laws against sodomy in France. Alternatively, it may have arisen because of generalizations from the artistic or intellectual lifestyle.)
This is serious ???
Fred Bauder a écrit:
I tried. I am no fan of the French, but that article has crap in it that is not only false but almost no Americans believes. I think we will have to ask them to demonstrate some references. Perhaps some language, "A small misinformed minority of Americans believe...."
Fred
From: Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:20:45 -0700 To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]
I was tempted to jump in. The article is a better criticism of the Americans than of the French. :-)
Ec
On Wed, 26 May 2004 11:58:38 +0100, Charles Matthews charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
Anthere wrote
This is serious ???
I wish British men got off so lightly. Apparently we're almost all gay. That must exclude Sean Connery, I guess. (Still, James Bond served in the Navy, so you can never tell.)
"Rum, sodomy, and the lash", as Churchill put it.
I believe Ian Penton-Voak did research in the 90s that showed evidence of recent natural selection here.
In a study of women choosing attractive "masculinized" or "feminized" computer-generated images of faces of men, British and Japanese women were more likely to pick men who showed more feminine traits than women of other countries.
-- Davodd David Speakman
On Wed, 26 May 2004 11:58:38 +0100, Charles Matthews charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
Anthere wrote
This is serious ???
I wish British men got off so lightly. Apparently we're almost all gay. That must exclude Sean Connery, I guess. (Still, James Bond served in the Navy, so you can never tell.)
On 05/26/04 at 12:44 PM, Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com said:
French men are largely homosexual/bisexual. (According to surveys American's male homosexual incidence is bigger than in French. This allegation may have arisen from the fact there are no laws against sodomy in France. Alternatively, it may have arisen because of generalizations from the artistic or intellectual lifestyle.)
This is serious ???
I guess this doesn't raise eyebrows because the French aren't a separate racial or ethnic group which has been the subject of systematic bigotry in recent history. Just imagine the uproar if someone where to create, for example, [[Anti-African-American sentiment in the United States]] and include a whole bunch of unattributed opinions about "lazy, shiftless, oversexed" black people and other mindless clichés. I am NOT saying racism in the US is not a suitable encyclopedia topic; of course it is, but it would (obviously) have to be handled in a more intelligently manner than the French article.
Somtimes I get the feeling that people on Wikipedia are so terrified of appearing to "censor" anything (cf political correctness) and so obssessed with the idea that "Wikipedia is not paper" that they forget that good judgement is also called for in deciding what to include and what to leave out.
My motto: "Wikipedia is not a dumpster".
V.
Viajero wrote:
My motto: "Wikipedia is not a dumpster".
Maybe better in Brit English: 'you must have us confused with Skipepedia'?
But then, if just about anything in the USA is relevant to American politics, and American politics is relevant to just about everything, where does one draw a line at all?
Sounds like one of those paradox of the heap/slippery slope arguments. Can't _prove_ the irrelevance of any columnist/comedian/culture warrior.
Charles
The latest news here in Colorado is that our governor, Bill Owens, at some convention in Illinois told a few anti-French jokes, including one that went:
"Why does the new French navy have glass-bottomed boats?
So they can see the old French navy!"
I think in light of this recent news, an article is justified which includes such ridiculous assertions, as it is prominent public officials who are making them.
Why Colorado elected such a fool is a long story.
Fred
From: Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com Reply-To: anthere9@yahoo.com, English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:44:58 +0200 To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]
French men are largely homosexual/bisexual. (According to surveys American's male homosexual incidence is bigger than in French. This allegation may have arisen from the fact there are no laws against sodomy in France. Alternatively, it may have arisen because of generalizations from the artistic or intellectual lifestyle.)
This is serious ???
Fred Bauder a écrit:
I tried. I am no fan of the French, but that article has crap in it that is not only false but almost no Americans believes. I think we will have to ask them to demonstrate some references. Perhaps some language, "A small misinformed minority of Americans believe...."
Fred
From: Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net Reply-To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:20:45 -0700 To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@Wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: [[Anti-French sentiment in the United States]]
I was tempted to jump in. The article is a better criticism of the Americans than of the French. :-)
Ec
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On Tue, 25 May 2004 03:20:45 UTC, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
... I was tempted to jump in. The article is a better criticism of the Americans than of the French. :-)
So it is. (Though the definite articles give a false sense of concreteness. *The* [Americans|French] are not something that really exists in this context.)
I almost wonder why it causes so much offense. Almost. Of course, no one wants to read a lot of insults to his country. But the coverage (more or less factual) of the large number of stupid horses' asses in _my_ country seems more damaging; and the article, or the snapshot of it that I looked at, doesn't ignore that aspect of the matter. I'd rather not have such infomration about Americans exposed to the world's view, but one doesn't want to suppress the facts. (Not that one can; not that the French don't know about this stuff without Wikipedia; but here we have all the gory details.)