I guess I need to be clearer about my remarks on NPOV and history. Basically, I was just trying to show how RK's attempts could be reduced to more basic principles.

Fred, I don't exactly see how my approach is taking Reform Judaism's view. Of course, an article on "Judaism" needs to provide Reform as well as other (Orthodox, etc.) views. Views of Jews from the past (tannaim, amoraim, saducees) do not necessarily support Reform's POV. Also, the notion that Judaism itself has a history is not specifically Reform. I am not a Reform Jew nor an expert on Reform Judaism. I do know that in the 19th century Reform Judaism was characterized by seeing Judaism as a religion; claiming a connection with the prophetic tradition; renouncing ritual laws and elevating ethical laws; having services in the vernacular -- I don't see how a study of history necessarily leads to any of these positions. What I was trying to say was that any article should show how current elements of Judaism (to stick to his example) -- Reform, Orthodox, Conservative, Reconstructionist -- came to be. I don't see how or why "history" should privilege any one of these over an other.

If I understand Charles's point, I guess it goes without saying: sometimes people disagree over what historical facts are relevant, or how to interpret them. In such cases, where there are multiple histories or interpretations of history, our NPOV policy requires that we make room for all major views. I don't think anything I wrote precludes an article from saying "no one is sure how this came to be," or "critical scholars and theologians have diverging views of the history of this development" or something like this. By the way, I worked a lot on the Jesus article, putting in views of critical scholars. At times there were conflicts among editors over what to include and how. Personally, though, I think it is now one of Wikipedia's best articles, at least as far as NPOV goes. It provides the kind of historical account I think RK is talking about, but provides it in a way, and alongside other accounts, that is NPOV and that -- so far -- Christian contributors accept.

Steve

Steven L. Rubenstein Associate Professor Department of Sociology and Anthropology Bentley Annex Ohio University Athens, Ohio 45701

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