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Speaking of free speech

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Steve Bennett

20 Feb 2006 20 Feb '06

1:08 p.m.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/20/austria.irving.trial.ap/index.ht… Looks like you don't need to go to the extent of causing death or injury. ObDisclaimer: I'm not sympathising or otherwise supporting Irving's views. But I'd be curious to know exactly what he's being charged with, and what the rules on free speech are in Austria... Steve

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Justin Cormack

20 Feb 20 Feb

1:15 p.m.

On 20 Feb 2006, at 13:08, Steve Bennett wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/20/austria.irving.trial.ap/ index.html?section=cnn_latest Looks like you don't need to go to the extent of causing death or injury. ObDisclaimer: I'm not sympathising or otherwise supporting Irving's views. But I'd be curious to know exactly what he's being charged with, and what the rules on free speech are in Austria...

Denying the holocaust is a crime in both Austria and Germany. Most countries dont have a constitutional right to free speech. Here in the UK we dont even have a written constitution. Justinc

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geni

1:27 p.m.

On 2/20/06, Steve Bennett <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/02/20/austria.irving.trial.ap/index.ht… Looks like you don't need to go to the extent of causing death or injury. ObDisclaimer: I'm not sympathising or otherwise supporting Irving's views. But I'd be curious to know exactly what he's being charged with, and what the rules on free speech are in Austria... Steve

A fair number of European countries picked up anti-Nazi laws just after the war. Unfortunate but at the time understandable. -- geni

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Steve Bennett

1:31 p.m.

On 2/20/06, Justin Cormack <justin(a)specialbusservice.com> wrote:

Denying the holocaust is a crime in both Austria and Germany. Most countries dont have a constitutional right to free speech. Here in the UK we dont even have a written constitution.

Hmm, understandable, but you wonder if 100 years from now, people won't think "I wonder whether it really happened or not. People never got the chance to find out, because the government made it a crime to ask the question." Anyway. Steve

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geni

1:39 p.m.

On 2/20/06, Steve Bennett <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hmm, understandable, but you wonder if 100 years from now, people won't think "I wonder whether it really happened or not. People never got the chance to find out, because the government made it a crime to ask the question." Anyway. Steve

It is not a crime to question the holocaust in the UK. Holocaust denial is alive and well in the US and probably the UK. -- geni

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Phil Boswell

1:56 p.m.

"geni" <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:f80608430602200539r54a3d709q9c5364d8729acadd@mail.gmail.com...

On 2/20/06, Steve Bennett <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hmm, understandable, but you wonder if 100 years from now, people won't think "I wonder whether it really happened or not. People never got the chance to find out, because the government made it a crime to ask the question."

It is not a crime to question the holocaust in the UK. Holocaust denial is alive and well in the US and probably the UK.

Hence why this repellent man is being prosecuted in Vienna, not London. I wonder if he could be hammered for "glorification of terrorism"? I suppose some nit-picker will say the Holocaust wasn't "terrorism"... -- Phil [[en:User:Phil Boswell]]

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Steve Bennett

2:08 p.m.

On 2/20/06, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hence why this repellent man is being prosecuted in Vienna, not London. I wonder if he could be hammered for "glorification of terrorism"? I suppose some nit-picker will say the Holocaust wasn't "terrorism"...

Because he gave an "illegal" speech in Austria, not the UK. I don't think the holocaust would be considered terrorism, since it was authorised by the state. But dear god let's not go there (even if what I said was complete rubbish, let's just let it go). Steve

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Phil Boswell

6:59 p.m.

"Steve Bennett" <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:f1c3529e0602200608u2362b840w3b48d0c339732ee@mail.gmail.com...

On 2/20/06, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hence why this repellent man is being prosecuted in Vienna, not London. I wonder if he could be hammered for "glorification of terrorism"? I suppose some nit-picker will say the Holocaust wasn't "terrorism"...

Because he gave an "illegal" speech in Austria, not the UK.

Has he actually given any speeches in the UK which might fit the criteria?

I don't think the holocaust would be considered terrorism, since it was authorised by the state. But dear god let's not go there (even if what I said was complete rubbish, let's just let it go).

Good call! -- Phil [[en:User:Phil Boswell]]

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Andrew Gray

7:02 p.m.

On 20/02/06, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell(a)gmail.com> wrote:

"Steve Bennett" <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:f1c3529e0602200608u2362b840w3b48d0c339732ee@mail.gmail.com...

On 2/20/06, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hence why this repellent man is being prosecuted in Vienna, not London. I wonder if he could be hammered for "glorification of terrorism"? I suppose some nit-picker will say the Holocaust wasn't "terrorism"...

Because he gave an "illegal" speech in Austria, not the UK.

Has he actually given any speeches in the UK which might fit the criteria?

Of "illegal under local law"? No. Of "holocaust denial"? Almost certainly. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.gray(a)dunelm.org.uk

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Fred Bauder

10:02 p.m.

I don't know that he has committed glorification of terrorism, but I suppose one could do so in a Nazi context, or even a Zionist context. Fred On Feb 20, 2006, at 6:56 AM, Phil Boswell wrote:

"geni" <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:f80608430602200539r54a3d709q9c5364d8729acadd@mail.gmail.com...

On 2/20/06, Steve Bennett <stevage(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hmm, understandable, but you wonder if 100 years from now, people won't think "I wonder whether it really happened or not. People never got the chance to find out, because the government made it a crime to ask the question."

It is not a crime to question the holocaust in the UK. Holocaust denial is alive and well in the US and probably the UK.

Hence why this repellent man is being prosecuted in Vienna, not London. I wonder if he could be hammered for "glorification of terrorism"? I suppose some nit-picker will say the Holocaust wasn't "terrorism"... -- Phil [[en:User:Phil Boswell]] _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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Ray Saintonge

21 Feb 21 Feb

1:46 a.m.

Steve Bennett wrote:

On 2/20/06, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hence why this repellent man is being prosecuted in Vienna, not London. I wonder if he could be hammered for "glorification of terrorism"? I suppose some nit-picker will say the Holocaust wasn't "terrorism"...

Because he gave an "illegal" speech in Austria, not the UK. I don't think the holocaust would be considered terrorism, since it was authorised by the state.

The term was first applied by Edmund Burke in relation to the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution. That was very much authorized by the state, such as it was. Ec

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Steve Bennett

7:04 a.m.

Agreed, accepted, now let's run like the wind away from this bad conversation topic! Steve On 2/21/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:

Steve Bennett wrote:

On 2/20/06, Phil Boswell <phil.boswell(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hence why this repellent man is being prosecuted in Vienna, not London. I wonder if he could be hammered for "glorification of terrorism"? I suppose some nit-picker will say the Holocaust wasn't "terrorism"...

Because he gave an "illegal" speech in Austria, not the UK. I don't think the holocaust would be considered terrorism, since it was authorised by the state.

The term was first applied by Edmund Burke in relation to the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution. That was very much authorized by the state, such as it was. Ec _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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11 comments

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participants (7)

Andrew Gray
Fred Bauder
geni
Justin Cormack
Phil Boswell
Ray Saintonge
Steve Bennett