He blocked even though the last edits were to MY user talk page. It's like dictating what I can or can't have at home. He must've been mad, maybe from losing a job earlier, or something awful in his life.
Really, can an admin block someone for deleting other users entries IN THEIR OWN USER TALK PAGE?
68.102.193.78. (user:shultz)
Yes, they can when there are a lot of warnings from other users about your behavior. Folks need to have some idea of what is going on. By removing them all the situation is muddled. I had to spend a bit of time investigating to see what was happening, looking at page history. Shouldn't have to do that. The block is only for 24 hours on the theory you are new and can improve.
Fred
On Oct 29, 2005, at 10:41 PM, shultz@ksu.edu wrote:
He blocked even though the last edits were to MY user talk page. It's like dictating what I can or can't have at home. He must've been mad, maybe from losing a job earlier, or something awful in his life.
Really, can an admin block someone for deleting other users entries IN THEIR OWN USER TALK PAGE?
68.102.193.78. (user:shultz)
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shultz@ksu.edu wrote:
He blocked even though the last edits were to MY user talk page. It's like dictating what I can or can't have at home.
No, it isn't. People should stop thinking that. Your User talk page is not your personal inbox where you can press 'Del' to get rid of something you don't like. It is a place where people can leave you public(!) messages, and they should stay there.
Your User page is slightly more like your "home": Here you can have a say in what DOESN'T go on it. However, even there you're still not free to put anything to offend/annoy/irritate/insult other users, hurt the project, or engage in anything illegal. Therefore, everyone has the right to remove any such things from your User page, and you can't really compare that with trespassing into your home.
Timwi
On 10/31/05, Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
shultz@ksu.edu wrote:
He blocked even though the last edits were to MY user talk page. It's like dictating what I can or can't have at home.
No, it isn't. People should stop thinking that. Your User talk page is not your personal inbox where you can press 'Del' to get rid of something you don't like. It is a place where people can leave you public(!) messages, and they should stay there.
Your User page is slightly more like your "home": Here you can have a say in what DOESN'T go on it. However, even there you're still not free to put anything to offend/annoy/irritate/insult other users, hurt the project, or engage in anything illegal. Therefore, everyone has the right to remove any such things from your User page, and you can't really compare that with trespassing into your home.
Timwi
This view is contradicted by at least one prominent member of the Arbitration Committee, [[User:Neutrality]], whose talk page header boldly claims "I archive when I feel like it. Depending on my whim, your comments may or may not be archived. The odds of not being archived are inversely proportional to the amount you annoy me. Please do not annoy me."
In other words, his view is that deleting items on one's own page is discretionary. If you want to see what uncomplimentary comments others have left, then you'd better get used to using the "page history" function because they won't necessarily be archived.
Blocking someone for doing what a Wikipedia arbitrator explicitly claims the right to do is wrong. If there was another reason for the block, that's another issue, but if this person is being blocked for deletion edits on his own talk page, then you should either unblock him, or block Neutrality as well.
If you want people to stop thinking that they can delete what they like off their own user talk pages, convince [[User:Neutrality]] to change his talk page header first.
Even though I think deletion of negative comments on one's user talk page is a deceptive thing to do (actually, I think it's worse than simply deceptive), I respect the user's ability to edit one's own user and talk pages as they please, including deleting complaints and other unpleasant comments. That's why my talk page encourages people to look in the page history and not an archive.
-- Michael Turley User:Unfocused
On 10/31/05, Michael Turley michael.turley@gmail.com wrote:
Blocking someone for doing what a Wikipedia arbitrator explicitly claims the right to do is wrong.
I've blocked an arbcom member in the past. I assume they thought what they were doing was right.
-- geni
On 10/31/05, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/31/05, Michael Turley michael.turley@gmail.com wrote:
Blocking someone for doing what a Wikipedia arbitrator explicitly claims the right to do is wrong.
I've blocked an arbcom member in the past. I assume they thought what they were doing was right.
I suppose you got me on a technicality based on me phrasing my point less precisely than I intended.
I'm sure, however, you see how this particular example presents a "two-faced" appearance to those who aren't administrators or arbitrators, and how that appearance should be corrected as quickly as possible, either by justifying the block on other grounds, reversing the user block, or applying the same standards to our own community servants.
-- Michael Turley User:Unfocused
On at the least the narrow point of deleting things off of your own talk page, I see it done fairly often, admins and non-admins alike. It's not a blockable offense is it?
Michael Turley michael.turley@gmail.com wrote: On 10/31/05, geni wrote:
On 10/31/05, Michael Turley wrote:
Blocking someone for doing what a Wikipedia arbitrator explicitly claims the right to do is wrong.
I've blocked an arbcom member in the past. I assume they thought what they were doing was right.
I suppose you got me on a technicality based on me phrasing my point less precisely than I intended.
I'm sure, however, you see how this particular example presents a "two-faced" appearance to those who aren't administrators or arbitrators, and how that appearance should be corrected as quickly as possible, either by justifying the block on other grounds, reversing the user block, or applying the same standards to our own community servants.
-- Michael Turley User:Unfocused _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
From: wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org [mailto:wikien-l-bounces@Wikipedia.org] On Behalf Of Brian Haws
On at the least the narrow point of deleting things off of your own talk page, I see it done fairly often, admins and non-admins alike. It's not a blockable offense is it?
It seems clear that the community expectation is that user pages are the user's own property and users can delete as they see fit. If you delete messages sent to you by others, then it is a reasonable assumption that you have either read the message and no longer wish to see it, or for some reason you don't want it on your talk page - perhaps it's vandalism, spam or abusive. Either way, the message remains in the edit history and though it may be inconvenient for a third party trying to sort out who said what to whom, it can be done.
Even if it's something reasonably official, such as a notification of RFAr or RFC proceedings, then it might be considered the same as service of a summons. The recipient might immediately tear it up and throw it away unread, but the summons has been served and there is an official record of service. We can send someone a message, but we cannot force them to read it.
As has already been noted, it is easy to find examples of every sort of behaviour. Some editors seem to never clear out their talk pages, others do it frequently and obsessively. Perhaps this reflects the editor's personal attitude to housecleaning and clutter rather than any considered adherence to official policy!
-- Peter (Skyring)
While I don't agree with deleting comments from other users on one's own talk page, I don't really think it should be blockable. However, changing and removing other people's comments from other talk pages is unacceptable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Shultz&diff=26754109... http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vanna_White&diff=prev&...
On 10/31/05, Brian Haws brian@bhaws.com wrote:
On at the least the narrow point of deleting things off of your own talk page, I see it done fairly often, admins and non-admins alike. It's not a blockable offense is it?
Michael Turley michael.turley@gmail.com wrote: On 10/31/05, geni wrote:
On 10/31/05, Michael Turley wrote:
Blocking someone for doing what a Wikipedia arbitrator explicitly claims the right to do is wrong.
I've blocked an arbcom member in the past. I assume they thought what they were doing was right.
I suppose you got me on a technicality based on me phrasing my point less precisely than I intended.
I'm sure, however, you see how this particular example presents a "two-faced" appearance to those who aren't administrators or arbitrators, and how that appearance should be corrected as quickly as possible, either by justifying the block on other grounds, reversing the user block, or applying the same standards to our own community servants.
-- Michael Turley User:Unfocused _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 10/31/05, Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
No, it isn't. People should stop thinking that. Your User talk page is not your personal inbox where you can press 'Del' to get rid of something you don't like. It is a place where people can leave you public(!) messages, and they should stay there.
Your User page is slightly more like your "home": Here you can have a say in what DOESN'T go on it. However, even there you're still not free to put anything to offend/annoy/irritate/insult other users, hurt the project, or engage in anything illegal. Therefore, everyone has the right to remove any such things from your User page, and you can't really compare that with trespassing into your home.
Timwi
I too have to disagree with you here, Timwi. Your user talk page is your personal inbox. It is a place where other users can leave you public messages. All you are required to do is to see them. What you then do with them is entirely up to you. As long as you don't delete them fully and permanently (i.e. be an admin and delete the individual comment) then that's OK. Thus it is not against policy to blank talk pages, even if it isn't positively disliked. A user has basically got the right to remove things if they so want, as many times as they want, but they should nevertheless be mindful of how this appears to everyone else, which is the crux as usual.
Sam