cprompt wrote
Many organizations also restrict what parts of their website can be edited, if any. They restrict access to their services to those without an account, and they verify accounts. Personally though, I think some protection should be offered against "ego surfing" where information on a person from the list is indexed in Google. This can still be an open and transparent public project with a fully searchable mailing list archive. I think that anyone should be able to search the archive only after clicking an appropriate link on Wikipedia.org.
Here's a practical example. We have all being condemning Lir. That could rebound on Adam (I won't use his full name here so as not to provide another link to his name!) But how many of his 'names' on wiki are also the names of real people. For example, if there is someone called Vera Cruz, they might not be happy to find the following on google:
[WikiEN-l] vera cruz is a troll ... WikiEN-l] vera cruz is a troll; ... |From: Oliver Pereira omp199@ecs.soton.ac.uk |X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean |Sender: wikien-l-admin@wikipedia.org |Reply ...
I have clashed with Fred Bauder, but Fred does not deserve to have the following on google, which comes via a different dispute he was involved in:
[WikiEN-l] [FB] and academic dishonesty [WikiEN-l] [FB] and academic dishonesty. Fred Bauder wikien-l@wikipedia.org Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:08:18 -0700: Previous message ...
(I have removed Fred's name from the above so as not to create another link to that claim!)
These are just from a couple of quick google searches I did at random.
In view of this, I would suggest:
1. That the list NOT be available to check on google or any search engine. 2. That users be discouraged from using their own name. If they don't have a nickname, initials or an unusual spelling of their name should be used. 3. We should not use a person's in the title of any messages on the list.
JT
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From: "james duffy" jtdirl@hotmail.com Reply-To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:02:32 +0100 To: wikien-l@wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] A request from H. Jonat
I have clashed with Fred Bauder, but Fred does not deserve to have the following on google, which comes via a different dispute he was involved in:
[WikiEN-l] [FB] and academic dishonesty [WikiEN-l] [FB] and academic dishonesty wikien-l@wikipedia.org Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:08:18 -0700: Previous message ...
(I have removed Fred's name from the above so as not to create another link to that claim!)
These are just from a couple of quick google searches I did at random.
In view of this, I would suggest:
- That the list NOT be available to check on google or any search engine.
- That users be discouraged from using their own name. If they don't have a
nickname, initials or an unusual spelling of their name should be used. 3. We should not use a person's in the title of any messages on the list.
JT
I agree with Jimbo that an open, generally available to the public is a part of what Wikipedia is about. Perhaps folks need to know when they jump in that the messages are googled, that could be in a mailing list FAQ. Using folks name in the title of any message, well like RK, when we do that we are usually pretty excited. That might be the better rule. Never post when you are all worked up.
People, like myself, who use their full name in the open on the internet have usually thought about it first and accept the consequences. I've been doing it for years and no harm yet. I get 400 hits on exact name, granted the cited one is #2 but that will pass. I live in a gossipy little small town anyway.
Fred
Maybe names should somehow be censored in the mailing list archives... we could encrypt any word not in the dictionary. --LittleDan
james duffy jtdirl@hotmail.com wrote:
cprompt wrote
Many organizations also restrict what parts of their website can be edited, if any. They restrict access to their services to those without an account, and they verify accounts. Personally though, I think some protection should be offered against "ego surfing" where information on a person from the list is indexed in Google. This can still be an open and transparent public project with a fully searchable mailing list archive. I think that anyone should be able to search the archive only after clicking an appropriate link on Wikipedia.org.
Here's a practical example. We have all being condemning Lir. That could rebound on Adam (I won't use his full name here so as not to provide another link to his name!) But how many of his 'names' on wiki are also the names of real people. For example, if there is someone called Vera Cruz, they might not be happy to find the following on google:
[WikiEN-l] vera cruz is a troll ... WikiEN-l] vera cruz is a troll; ... |From: Oliver Pereira |X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean |Sender: wikien-l-admin@wikipedia.org |Reply ...
I have clashed with Fred Bauder, but Fred does not deserve to have the following on google, which comes via a different dispute he was involved in:
[WikiEN-l] [FB] and academic dishonesty [WikiEN-l] [FB] and academic dishonesty. Fred Bauder wikien-l@wikipedia.org Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:08:18 -0700: Previous message ...
(I have removed Fred's name from the above so as not to create another link to that claim!)
These are just from a couple of quick google searches I did at random.
In view of this, I would suggest:
1. That the list NOT be available to check on google or any search engine. 2. That users be discouraged from using their own name. If they don't have a nickname, initials or an unusual spelling of their name should be used. 3. We should not use a person's in the title of any messages on the list.
JT
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On Thu, 29 May 2003, james duffy wrote:
Here's a practical example. We have all being condemning Lir. That could rebound on Adam (I won't use his full name here so as not to provide another link to his name!)
Adam [name omitted for privacy reasons] is a well-meaning chap who has been unfairly maligned on this mailing list too many times. There you go. I've just counterbalanced all the negative things about him on the mailing lists. ;)
- That the list NOT be available to check on google or any search engine.
- That users be discouraged from using their own name. If they don't have a
nickname, initials or an unusual spelling of their name should be used. 3. We should not use a person's in the title of any messages on the list.
On the contrary - the lists should be kept public, and people should be encouraged to use their real names. This is a serious project, and I don't see why people should hide behind silly made-up names to contribute to it. Hiding one's true identity is arguably against the GNU Free Documentation License anyway (it says that authors must be listed), and is arguably contrary to the general Wikipedia spirit of openness and freedom of information. Besides, if people's real identities are known, they would hopefully be less inclined to be rude to each other, and to say silly things they might regret later. :) Your third point sounds good to me, though, if by that you mean in the context of a personal attack. Personal attacks are generally best avoided anyway.
Oliver
+-------------------------------------------+ | Oliver Pereira | | Dept. of Electronics and Computer Science | | University of Southampton | | omp199@ecs.soton.ac.uk | +-------------------------------------------+
james duffy wrote:
[...] I would suggest:
- That the list NOT be available to check on google or any search
engine. 2. That users be discouraged from using their own name. If they don't have a nickname, initials or an unusual spelling of their name should be used. 3. We should not use a person's in the title of any messages on the list.
20 years ago, the RAND corporation put out a tech report discussing the then-newfangled email, and one of their recommendations was "don't put anything in email that you don't want to see on the front page of the New York Times the next day".
It's still good advice today. I came to appreciate its value when some of my Usenet flaming came up in a job interview a year later. It didn't cost me the job, but it was a reminder that what we do here is as much a part of the public record as a printed article or book. Perhaps someday a Wikipedia talk page will figure in a political scandal! "I truly believe a [[Strom Thurmond]] presidency in [[1948]] would have averted the [[civil rights]] disturbances of the following decade." :-)
Stan