I do not believe Jews are singled out. Every other ethnicity has people after them. Jews are the only ethnicity without it.
- Cool Cat
It's not an ethnicity; it's a religion.
Ec
Old joke:
Q: What is a Jew?
A: A person who asks, "what is a Jew?"
Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:
I do not believe Jews are singled out. Every other ethnicity has people after them. Jews are the only ethnicity without it.
- Cool Cat
It's not an ethnicity; it's a religion.
Ec
Old joke:
Q: What is a Jew?
A: A person who asks, "what is a Jew?"
YYUR YYUB ICUR YY4ME
I am not concerned what "Jew" supposed to be, please save me the lecture... I know its complicated. That is not the point of this inquiry. I am only concerned at what Jew supposed to be on [[Category:Jews]]. I do not understand the inclusion criteria and there is no explanation.
Categories should have one and only one purpose: a reliable navigation aid. So what is [[Category:Jew]] supposed to cover? Ethnicity? Religion? Race? Type here? It cannot be all/some of the above. Maybe a [[Category:Jew]] and seperate [[Category:Jewish people]] could be considered.
I'd like to add that I was unaware that we were categorizing people by religion... It feels kinda redundant... Everybody has a religion and it can be just as easily mentioned in the article... Why need the category?
- Cool Cat
On 2/6/07, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
Daniel P. B. Smith wrote:
I do not believe Jews are singled out. Every other ethnicity has people after them. Jews are the only ethnicity without it.
- Cool Cat
It's not an ethnicity; it's a religion.
Ec
Old joke:
Q: What is a Jew?
A: A person who asks, "what is a Jew?"
YYUR YYUB ICUR YY4ME
-- Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia "We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
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What part of it is nonsense? - Cool Cat
On 2/8/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Cool Cat wrote:
Everybody has a religion ...
Yhat statement is utter nonsense!
Ec
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Cool Cat wrote:
What part of it is nonsense?
- Cool Cat
On 2/8/07, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Cool Cat wrote:
Everybody has a religion ...
Yhat statement is utter nonsense!
Ec
All of it. I do not have a religion, and I find it insulting to suggest that I do. I'm confident that I am not alone in that view.
Ec
You might want to stay away from the mailing lists if you are that fragile. The point of the mailing list is to discuss wikipedia related stuff, not your personal beliefs or whatever.
Just to satisfy you, I want to amend my comment. "Almost anyone has a religion".
[[Category:People who do not have a religion]] is just as bad as [[Category:People who do have a religion]]/[[Category:People who are from 'type religion here']] in any case.
Cool Cat
On 2/8/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Cool Cat wrote:
What part of it is nonsense?
- Cool Cat
On 2/8/07, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Cool Cat wrote:
Everybody has a religion ...
Yhat statement is utter nonsense!
Ec
All of it. I do not have a religion, and I find it insulting to suggest that I do. I'm confident that I am not alone in that view.
Ec
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Cool Cat wrote:
You might want to stay away from the mailing lists if you are that fragile. The point of the mailing list is to discuss wikipedia related stuff, not your personal beliefs or whatever.
Sorry, but I thought that you had started this thread to push your own beliefs.
Just to satisfy you, I want to amend my comment. "Almost anyone has a religion".
:-P
[[Category:People who do not have a religion]] is just as bad as [[Category:People who do have a religion]]/[[Category:People who are from 'type religion here']] in any case.
The logical conclusion from that is tht we should not have religious categories at all. If that's the case why are we even bpthering with any distinction between Jews and Jewish people. We could be deleting both.
Ec
Jewish is not only a religion but also a race. Someone can be an atheist and still Jewish. For example, I personally don't really believe in god but I'm still a Jew. Heh, I was about to automatically add ~~~~...
Yonatan
On 2/8/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Cool Cat wrote:
You might want to stay away from the mailing lists if you are that
fragile.
The point of the mailing list is to discuss wikipedia related stuff, not your personal beliefs or whatever.
Sorry, but I thought that you had started this thread to push your own beliefs.
Just to satisfy you, I want to amend my comment. "Almost anyone has a religion".
:-P
[[Category:People who do not have a religion]] is just as bad as [[Category:People who do have a religion]]/[[Category:People who are
from
'type religion here']] in any case.
The logical conclusion from that is tht we should not have religious categories at all. If that's the case why are we even bpthering with any distinction between Jews and Jewish people. We could be deleting both.
Ec
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Jewish is not only a religion but also a race. Someone can be an atheist
and
still Jewish. For example, I personally don't really believe in god but
I'm
still a Jew. Heh, I was about to automatically add ~~~~...
Yonatan
Judaism is not a race. There is nothing biologically which separates a Jew(ish person) from a non-Jew(ish person). It is OK to call it a culture, but not a race. --Mets501
I am personally apathetic towards the whole issue, but I'd like to point out to Mets that I've while I've met a large amount of people who consider the word a slur, and Judaism simply a religion, I've also met a decent amount of people (both Jewish and non-Jewish) who feel the exact opposite.
I was at a seminar awhile back for a certain disorder that one of my family members has, and a during Q & A a Rabbi in the audience commented about how nice it was to see science paying attention to a disease in which a significant percentage of those who had it were "Ashkenazi Jews" [sic]. In science, certain ethnic groups which contain "Jew" in the title (such as Ashkenazi) are considered distinct gene pools.
ikiroid wrote:
I was at a seminar awhile back for a certain disorder that one of my family members has, and a during Q & A a Rabbi in the audience commented about how nice it was to see science paying attention to a disease in which a significant percentage of those who had it were "Ashkenazi Jews" [sic]. In science, certain ethnic groups which contain "Jew" in the title (such as Ashkenazi) are considered distinct gene pools.
"Ashkenazim" alone would suffice, but I can understand that in a group with mixed religious backgrounds the word might not be a familiar one.
Ec
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Specific_diseases
I suggest you look at that. In addition to that, I remember seeing some research papers published on Ashkenazi Jews and will look for them if you really see the need. Just to support the above point, my cousin who is an Ashkenazi Jew has Familial Dysautonomy and my other cousin who is also an Ashkenazi Jew has Crohn's Disease.
-Yonatan
On 2/9/07, Mets501 mets501wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Jewish is not only a religion but also a race. Someone can be an atheist
and
still Jewish. For example, I personally don't really believe in god but
I'm
still a Jew. Heh, I was about to automatically add ~~~~...
Yonatan
Judaism is not a race. There is nothing biologically which separates a Jew(ish person) from a non-Jew(ish person). It is OK to call it a culture, but not a race. --Mets501
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Yonatan Horan wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Specific_diseases
I suggest you look at that. In addition to that, I remember seeing some research papers published on Ashkenazi Jews and will look for them if you really see the need. Just to support the above point, my cousin who is an Ashkenazi Jew has Familial Dysautonomy and my other cousin who is also an Ashkenazi Jew has Crohn's Disease.
-Yonatan
On 2/9/07, Mets501 mets501wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Jewish is not only a religion but also a race. Someone can be an atheist and
still Jewish. For example, I personally don't really believe in god but I'm
still a Jew.
Yonatan
Judaism is not a race. There is nothing biologically which separates a Jew(ish person) from a non-Jew(ish person). It is OK to call it a culture, but not a race. --Mets501
I respectfully hold that treating Jews as a race is fraught with problems. The epidemiological evidence cited may very well suggest racial characteristics among the Ashykenazim, but that says nothing about the Sephardim. To what extent do they share the same congenital diseases? I would even suggest that Ashkenazim and Sephardim are racially more different than Catholics and Protestants. The genetic disease have most likely evolved as a byproduct of inbreeding over multiple generations. The belief, as expressed in the article that you cite, that a Jew does not cut ties with being a Jew by the simple expedient of disclaiming being Jewish can have devastating political ramifications when applied by those with a strong dislike of Jews.
Ec
On 2/11/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Yonatan Horan wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Specific_diseases
I suggest you look at that. In addition to that, I remember seeing some research papers published on Ashkenazi Jews and will look for them if you really see the need. Just to support the above point, my cousin who is an Ashkenazi Jew has Familial Dysautonomy and my other cousin who is also an Ashkenazi Jew has Crohn's Disease.
-Yonatan
On 2/9/07, Mets501 mets501wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Jewish is not only a religion but also a race. Someone can be an atheist and
still Jewish. For example, I personally don't really believe in god but I'm
still a Jew.
Yonatan
Judaism is not a race. There is nothing biologically which separates a Jew(ish person) from a non-Jew(ish person). It is OK to call it a culture, but not a race. --Mets501
I respectfully hold that treating Jews as a race is fraught with problems. The epidemiological evidence cited may very well suggest racial characteristics among the Ashykenazim, but that says nothing about the Sephardim. To what extent do they share the same congenital diseases? I would even suggest that Ashkenazim and Sephardim are racially more different than Catholics and Protestants.
You'd be wrong, though.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/12/6769
Jay.
This actually points out the real problem rather well. Categorization should be done carefully. Mixing religion with ethnicity is just asking for trouble in categorization. - Cool Cat
On 2/12/07, jayjg jayjg99@gmail.com wrote:
On 2/11/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Yonatan Horan wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Specific_diseases
I suggest you look at that. In addition to that, I remember seeing some research papers published on Ashkenazi Jews and will look for them if
you
really see the need. Just to support the above point, my cousin who is
an
Ashkenazi Jew has Familial Dysautonomy and my other cousin who is also
an
Ashkenazi Jew has Crohn's Disease.
-Yonatan
On 2/9/07, Mets501 mets501wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Jewish is not only a religion but also a race. Someone can be an
atheist and
still Jewish. For example, I personally don't really believe in god
but I'm
still a Jew.
Yonatan
Judaism is not a race. There is nothing biologically which separates
a
Jew(ish person) from a non-Jew(ish person). It is OK to call it a culture, but not a race. --Mets501
I respectfully hold that treating Jews as a race is fraught with problems. The epidemiological evidence cited may very well suggest racial characteristics among the Ashykenazim, but that says nothing about the Sephardim. To what extent do they share the same congenital diseases? I would even suggest that Ashkenazim and Sephardim are racially more different than Catholics and Protestants.
You'd be wrong, though.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/12/6769
Jay.
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On 2/12/07, Cool Cat wikipedia.kawaii.neko@gmail.com wrote:
This actually points out the real problem rather well.
I have no idea what you mean; what "problem" does it "point out... rather well"?
Categorization should be done carefully. Mixing religion with ethnicity is just asking for trouble in categorization.
Categories have to mirror real-life though, and Jews don't fit the neat separations of ethnicity and religion that you might prefer in some "ideal" world.
Jay.
You misunderstand.
We can have [[Category:Jew (religon)]] [[Category:Jew (ethicity)]] and not [[Category:Jew]].
The thing is category should be used for one thing. The term being a confusing one only supports this separation.
- Cool Cat
On 2/13/07, jayjg jayjg99@gmail.com wrote:
On 2/12/07, Cool Cat wikipedia.kawaii.neko@gmail.com wrote:
This actually points out the real problem rather well.
I have no idea what you mean; what "problem" does it "point out... rather well"?
Categorization should be done carefully. Mixing religion with ethnicity is just asking for
trouble
in categorization.
Categories have to mirror real-life though, and Jews don't fit the neat separations of ethnicity and religion that you might prefer in some "ideal" world.
Jay.
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jayjg wrote:
On 2/11/07, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Yonatan Horan wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Specific_diseases
I suggest you look at that. In addition to that, I remember seeing some research papers published on Ashkenazi Jews and will look for them if you really see the need. Just to support the above point, my cousin who is an Ashkenazi Jew has Familial Dysautonomy and my other cousin who is also an Ashkenazi Jew has Crohn's Disease.
On 2/9/07, Mets501 wrote:
Jewish is not only a religion but also a race. Someone can be an atheist and still Jewish. For example, I personally don't really believe in god but I'm still a Jew.
Judaism is not a race. There is nothing biologically which separates a Jew(ish person) from a non-Jew(ish person). It is OK to call it a culture, but not a race.
I respectfully hold that treating Jews as a race is fraught with problems. The epidemiological evidence cited may very well suggest racial characteristics among the Ashkenazim, but that says nothing about the Sephardim. To what extent do they share the same congenital diseases? I would even suggest that Ashkenazim and Sephardim are racially more different than Catholics and Protestants.
You'd be wrong, though.
Thanks. Rather than venturing forth with foolish responses, I will need to study the article in greater detail before pursuing this line of thought, and its implications.
Ec
On 2/8/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
All of it. I do not have a religion, and I find it insulting to suggest that I do. I'm confident that I am not alone in that view.
You're not.
Please kill of the flame war bordering nonsense and stay on topic.
On 2/8/07, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
On 2/8/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
All of it. I do not have a religion, and I find it insulting to suggest that I do. I'm confident that I am not alone in that view.
You're not.
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on 2/8/07 6:07 AM, Ray Saintonge at saintonge@telus.net wrote:
All of it. I do not have a religion, and I find it insulting to suggest that I do. I'm confident that I am not alone in that view.
You are, most emphatically, not alone!
Marc Riddell