Idea for new feature: "Who's watching this page?"
This got mooted on the Village Pump today- I'm STRONGLY against this, to the extent that I'd withdraw from wikipedia with a demand that any history of pages I'd watched be deleted from public record if it were to be implemeted. Suffice to say many of us watch certain pages for many differing reasons which are nobody elses business.
Nuf said i hope.
Graham (Quercus Robur)
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Graham Burnett wrote:
Idea for new feature: "Who's watching this page?"
This got mooted on the Village Pump today- I'm STRONGLY against this, to the extent that I'd withdraw from wikipedia with a demand that any history of pages I'd watched be deleted from public record if it were to be implemeted. Suffice to say many of us watch certain pages for many differing reasons which are nobody elses business.
Nuf said i hope.
Graham (Quercus Robur)
How about a user preference allowing you to hide your watchlist? The "successfully added to watchlist" screen could warn the user that the watchlist is public and inform them of the fact that they can alter this in their user preferences.
-- Tim Starling
Nope, this is DEFINITELY not a good idea. Where is this suggested?
RickK
Graham Burnett grahamburnett@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: Idea for new feature: "Who's watching this page?"
This got mooted on the Village Pump today- I'm STRONGLY against this, to the extent that I'd withdraw from wikipedia with a demand that any history of pages I'd watched be deleted from public record if it were to be implemeted. Suffice to say many of us watch certain pages for many differing reasons which are nobody elses business.
Nuf said i hope.
Graham (Quercus Robur)
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On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 08:25 PM, Graham Burnett wrote:
Idea for new feature: "Who's watching this page?"
This got mooted on the Village Pump today- I'm STRONGLY against this, to the extent that I'd withdraw from wikipedia with a demand that any history of pages I'd watched be deleted from public record if it were to be implemeted. Suffice to say many of us watch certain pages for many differing reasons which are nobody elses business.
Why can't we have a user preference that says "Hide my watchlist from other users"? Then, on the "Who's watching this page?" page, there would be a note to the effect that there are X additional users that are watching the page, but whom do not want to be identified. This seems like a balanced solution to me -- users who value their privacy could choose not to be identified, but the useful statistic of how many people there are that are watching the page would still be available.
Just a thought :-)
Benjamin Esham wrote:
On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 08:25 PM, Graham Burnett wrote:
Idea for new feature: "Who's watching this page?"
This got mooted on the Village Pump today- I'm STRONGLY against this, to the extent that I'd withdraw from wikipedia with a demand that any history of pages I'd watched be deleted from public record if it were to be implemeted. Suffice to say many of us watch certain pages for many differing reasons which are nobody elses business.
Why can't we have a user preference that says "Hide my watchlist from other users"? Then, on the "Who's watching this page?" page, there would be a note to the effect that there are X additional users that are watching the page, but whom do not want to be identified. This seems like a balanced solution to me -- users who value their privacy could choose not to be identified, but the useful statistic of how many people there are that are watching the page would still be available.
Just a thought :-)
My word, that *is* a good idea. Why didn't I think of that?
-- Tim Starling.
On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 09:01 PM, Tim Starling wrote:
Benjamin Esham wrote:
[idea]
My word, that *is* a good idea. Why didn't I think of that?
;-)
I'm going to blame that one on my mail server acting screwy :-)
Why can't we have a user preference that says "Hide my watchlist from other users"? Then, on the "Who's watching this page?" page, there would be a note to the effect that there are X additional users that are watching the page, but whom do not want to be identified. This seems like a balanced solution to me -- users who value their privacy could choose not to be identified, but the useful statistic of how many people there are that are watching the page would still be available.
Just a thought :-)
-- Benjamin D. Esham
OK, but the default preference should be to keep it private by default, and the new feature would mainly be used just to see how many people are watching it. LDan
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On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 06:02:22PM -0700, Daniel Ehrenberg wrote:
OK, but the default preference should be to keep it private by default, and the new feature would mainly be used just to see how many people are watching it.
I disagree. That default will make the feature useless. Make the default Public and place a good notice on the edit page next to the watchlist chechbox.
Why is making a watchlist public any worse than ones contributions?
Audin Malmin wrote:
On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 06:02:22PM -0700, Daniel Ehrenberg wrote:
OK, but the default preference should be to keep it private by default, and the new feature would mainly be used just to see how many people are watching it.
I disagree. That default will make the feature useless. Make the default Public and place a good notice on the edit page next to the watchlist chechbox.
Why is making a watchlist public any worse than ones contributions?
The proposal to watch who's watching which page is the kind of thing that's worthy of an aspiring KGB or CIA agent. The potential for mischief is too high. I want to be on the record as absolutely against it.
Ec
--- Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
The proposal to watch who's watching which page is the kind of thing that's worthy of an aspiring KGB or CIA agent. The potential for mischief is too high. I want to be on the record as absolutely against it.
I likewise agree it's bad idea.
The concept of wikipedia is such that people should wathc ove each other's shoulders, because that's how articles get better over time.
===== Christopher Mahan chris_mahan@yahoo.com 818.943.1850 cell http://www.christophermahan.com/
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Ececticology wrote:
The proposal to watch who's watching which page is the kind of thing that's worthy of an aspiring KGB or CIA agent. The potential for mischief is too high. I want to be on the record as absolutely against it.
Not at all! Secret agents are useful only for information that is /not/ publicly available. If watchlists were public, then all of the CIA agents presently employed in ferreting them out would lose their jobs.
For a real-life example, the USA PATRIOT Act allows the FBI to look at US library records -- but it does /not/ make those records public to everybody! John Ashcroft wouldn't like that hypothetical situation at all; because if terrorists/dissidents knew what was available, then they would take care to make sure that it was harmless.
-- Toby
Actually, it's a good idea. In no way is it a invasion of privacy. Anyone who wants to get some idea of a contributor's interests can look at his edit record. There's no good reason not to have watchlists be public.
If you don't want people to know what your watchlist is, then don't have one.
Wikipedia benefits the more open the actions and behavior of its participants are to each other and to the outside world.
Qui custodiet custodies? Omnia mundi in Wikipediam.
Don't confuse this with actual invasions of privacy.
Actually, it's a good idea. In no way is it a invasion of privacy. Anyone who wants to get some idea of a contributor's interests can look at his edit record. There's no good reason not to have watchlists be public.
Edit history does not equal watch list. I can watch something without having edited it. And other people being able to see my watch list is an invasion of privacy of sorts, so this should be "opt-in" only, not the default, if implemented.
Wikipedia is trying to get more people to join, so it would be a tragedy if this privacy issue kept folks away.
-Fuzheado
The Cunctator wrote:
Actually, it's a good idea. In no way is it a invasion of privacy. Anyone who wants to get some idea of a contributor's interests can look at his edit record. There's no good reason not to have watchlists be public.
By that logic there's no good reason to have watchlists be public, since as you say you can already see a person's editing interests from their recent edits.
On Monday, Oct 20, 2003, at 21:01 US/Pacific, Andrew Lih wrote:
Edit history does not equal watch list. I can watch something without having edited it. And other people being able to see my watch list is an invasion of privacy of sorts,
It's essentially equivalent to automatically uploading your browser's bookmarks file for public viewing. Maybe you're expecting that and make sure you're only bookmarking pages you want your grandma and your boss to see you like, maybe you're not.
so this should be "opt-in" only, not the default, if implemented.
I've suggested an opt-in "public watchlist" myself, actually, but I'm not sufficiently interested to program it.
You can do this yourself by simply creating a page of links as a subpage to your userpage; it'll show up in "what links here" on the 'watched' pages and anyone can use the "related changes" function to use your list as a recentchanges filter. Further, you can have multiple lists according to category, topic, or whim.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
I also don't think that this is a good idea. What would be the purpose of this feature other than "gathering statistics"? What kind of statistics do you hope to gather?
Best, Sascha Noyes aka snoyes
On Tuesday 21 October 2003 12:01 am, Andrew Lih wrote:
Edit history does not equal watch list. I can watch something without having edited it. And other people being able to see my watch list is an invasion of privacy of sorts, so this should be "opt-in" only, not the default, if implemented.
Wikipedia is trying to get more people to join, so it would be a tragedy if this privacy issue kept folks away.
-Fuzheado
At 08:51 PM 10/20/2003, The Cunctator wrote:
Actually, it's a good idea. In no way is it a invasion of privacy. Anyone who wants to get some idea of a contributor's interests can look at his edit record. There's no good reason not to have watchlists be public.
If you don't want people to know what your watchlist is, then don't have one.
Wikipedia benefits the more open the actions and behavior of its participants are to each other and to the outside world.
Qui custodiet custodies? Omnia mundi in Wikipediam.
Don't confuse this with actual invasions of privacy.
Well, I wouldn't go quite as far as to say that it's in no way an invasion of privacy, but I think that as long as the default is to private there's no reason we can't give people an OPTION to make their watchlists public.
I am opposed, in principle, to any decision that limits peoples' options with no good cause. Just because YOU (editorial you) don't want your watchlist public is no reason to keep others from making theirs' public.
Also, the "who watches the watchers" comment raises the old point that sunshine is, in general, a good cure for many ills.. but still, there ought to be a certain amount of privacy for things that are, in fairness, private.
P.S. Will there also be a feature "Which Users Have Viewed My Watchlist"? ;)
----- Dante Alighieri dalighieri@digitalgrapefruit.com
"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of great moral crisis." -Dante Alighieri, 1265-1321
Actually, it's a good idea. In no way is it a invasion of privacy. Anyone who wants to get some idea of a contributor's interests can look at his edit record. There's no good reason not to have watchlists be public.
If you don't want people to know what your watchlist is, then don't have one.
Wikipedia benefits the more open the actions and behavior of its participants are to each other and to the outside world.
Qui custodiet custodies? Omnia mundi in Wikipediam.
"Who watches the guards? The entire world in Wikipedia."
Don't confuse this with actual invasions of privacy.
Before watchlists, people kept lists of links on their userpages and used [[Special:Recentchangeslinked]] to watch their pages. This was open to public view; if somebody wanted a private watchlist, then I suppose that they just kept their list somewhere else (and were deprived of the convenience of [[Special:Recentchangeslinked]]). It's not clear to me whether, in creating [[Special:Watchlist]], the fact that the lists became private was intended or a side effect.
If I had the option to make my watchlist public, then I would, in the interests of the openness that The Cunctator mentions here. At the same time, I don't want to remove the convenience that [[Special:Watchlist]] brings to watchlist management, simply because somebody prefers to keep a private watchlist. A user preference would avoid this, and that preference's justification would be if there were people that would insist upon using it. There seem to be some!
As for the justification of having possibly public watchlists at all, well, I think that /I/ would only care about knowing /how many/ people are watching a given page. But if other people want more, and they can convince a developer to program it, then I won't complain. ^_^
-- Toby
On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 01:25:22AM +0100, Graham Burnett wrote:
Idea for new feature: "Who's watching this page?"
This got mooted on the Village Pump today- I'm STRONGLY against this, to the extent that I'd withdraw from wikipedia with a demand that any history of pages I'd watched be deleted from public record if it were to be implemeted. ...
I've actually wished this feature existed several times. It'd be a nice way to move from article to article in ones own area of expertise when looking for articles to edit.