For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
----- Original Message ----- From: Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org
For your comedy pleasure :)
What does he do if the article gets deleted? Burn the money? :)
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete the article on grounds of notability!
We'd be the only ones (besides his girlfriend) to ever have bested him!
--Oskar
Depends what event he appears at. But yes, I would expect the deletionists to go nuts with this.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Oskar Sigvardsson < oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete the article on grounds of notability!
We'd be the only ones (besides his girlfriend) to ever have bested him!
--Oskar
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2009/2/20 The Cunctator cunctator@gmail.com:
Depends what event he appears at. But yes, I would expect the deletionists to go nuts with this.
I get people calling me a "radical inclusionist." This is the sorta crap that makes *me* go mad with an axe.
- d.
2009/2/20 Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :) http://xkcd.com/545/
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete the article on grounds of notability!
Some say this has already happened. At least seven times.
- d.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete the article on grounds of notability!
That's a boring response -- I would just insert a template that can display either an odd or an even number of words dependent on something outside the article itself...
-Kat
2009/2/21 Kat Walsh kat@mindspillage.org:
That's a boring response -- I would just insert a template that can display either an odd or an even number of words dependent on something outside the article itself...
Why restrict ourselves to boring integers? We could declare a new standard, appropriate to the wiki environment, to be a running average over the last n sighted revisions (or the last 24 hours)...
("Is 11,234.4987 odd?")
"Andrew Gray" andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk wrote in message news:f3fedb0d0902201736t168c934ft9fe75db55a5ca35f@mail.gmail.com...
("Is 11,234.4987 odd?")
To answer your question, I must round the figure to an integer, because odd and even are only defined within the set of integers. So, either "yes" or "odd is undefined". Plus, within the thread, I would approve of the article being deleted for notability or redirected to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox (self-referential paradox), which would answer the question one way or another for ten seconds.
2009/2/21 Kat Walsh kat@mindspillage.org:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete the article on grounds of notability!
That's a boring response -- I would just insert a template that can display either an odd or an even number of words dependent on something outside the article itself...
I'd fill the article with equations or something else difficult to divide into words. If the word count becomes undefined, the problem goes away (and the fancy man with the very fine hat gets to keep his money, I guess).
Right, that's the real failing of the comic. The condition is easy to game.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.comwrote:
2009/2/21 Kat Walsh kat@mindspillage.org:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org
wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete the article on grounds of notability!
That's a boring response -- I would just insert a template that can display either an odd or an even number of words dependent on something outside the article itself...
I'd fill the article with equations or something else difficult to divide into words. If the word count becomes undefined, the problem goes away (and the fancy man with the very fine hat gets to keep his money, I guess).
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2009/2/21 Kat Walsh kat@mindspillage.org:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete the article on grounds of notability!
That's a boring response -- I would just insert a template that can display either an odd or an even number of words dependent on something outside the article itself...
-Kat
Unless template code has a random function I can't see a way to do it. Even {{REVISIONID}} {{PAGESIZE:page name}}{{NUMBEROFUSERS}}{{NUMBEROFUSERS}}{{NUMBEROFEDITS}}{{NUMBERINGROUP:groupname}}
wouldn't quite be ungameable.
Isn't the traditional way to link to some outside number--parimutual handle, stock market figures, whatever.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:18 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
2009/2/21 Kat Walsh kat@mindspillage.org:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete the article on grounds of notability!
That's a boring response -- I would just insert a template that can display either an odd or an even number of words dependent on something outside the article itself...
-Kat
Unless template code has a random function I can't see a way to do it. Even {{REVISIONID}} {{PAGESIZE:page name}}{{NUMBEROFUSERS}}{{NUMBEROFUSERS}}{{NUMBEROFEDITS}}{{NUMBERINGROUP:groupname}}
wouldn't quite be ungameable.
-- geni
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2009/2/21 David Goodman dgoodmanny@gmail.com:
Isn't the traditional way to link to some outside number--parimutual handle, stock market figures, whatever.
Our template code may be Turing-complete, but I don't think it has live feed access to the stock markets...
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
2009/2/21 David Goodman dgoodmanny@gmail.com:
Isn't the traditional way to link to some outside number--parimutual handle, stock market figures, whatever.
Our template code may be Turing-complete, but I don't think it has live feed access to the stock markets...
[[WP:BEANS]]
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Sam Korn smoddy@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
Our template code may be Turing-complete, but I don't think it has live feed access to the stock markets...
[[WP:BEANS]]
Are you seriously suggesting that if we keep this discussion up, someone might *actually* stand up at a conference and *actually* do this thing? That's completely absurd!
Are you going to answer the same thing if I asked "What would happen to wikipedia if someone nuked Florida?". No stop it, don't give 'em any ideas!
--Oskar
The traditional way to make a random number is to apply a pseudo-random number generator [[PRNG]] to the time. More crypto-savvy PRNG's use mouse-clicks and keyboard timings, coupled with samplings of the real-time clock (in BCD mode) and storings of a seed value. /dev/random under Mandrake was imractically slow for my taste, though, probably because it was WAITing for those events or some fool thing. I know this, because it was faster under X-Windows. For my purposes, I wrote my own, and it was faster than /dev/random (or was it /dev/noise) in BASIC, FCOL. I broke the DVD for Mandrake on purpose.
"David Goodman" dgoodmanny@gmail.com wrote in message news:480eb3150902201826m7e13d30dod700e3c8eec354c2@mail.gmail.com...
Isn't the traditional way to link to some outside number--parimutual handle, stock market figures, whatever.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:18 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
2009/2/21 Kat Walsh kat@mindspillage.org:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.org wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete the article on grounds of notability!
That's a boring response -- I would just insert a template that can display either an odd or an even number of words dependent on something outside the article itself...
-Kat
Unless template code has a random function I can't see a way to do it. Even {{REVISIONID}} {{PAGESIZE:page name}}{{NUMBEROFUSERS}}{{NUMBEROFUSERS}}{{NUMBEROFEDITS}}{{NUMBERINGROUP:groupname}}
wouldn't quite be ungameable.
-- geni
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
-- David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
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Judson Dunn wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
It's actually a good point; when one looks at our articles on Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot, a neutral point of view is somewhat unlikely, because we have to report verifiable facts, and such articles cannot be rescued by stuff like "but he was good to his mother" on that point. Some people seem to think that NPOV means whitewashing, and that has to be nonsense. Maybe the examples I've given are extreme, but I do see it on a daily basis. I'll get me coat.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Phil Nash pn007a2145@blueyonder.co.ukwrote:
Judson Dunn wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
It's actually a good point; when one looks at our articles on Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot, a neutral point of view is somewhat unlikely, because we have to report verifiable facts, and such articles cannot be rescued by stuff like "but he was good to his mother" on that point. Some people seem to think that NPOV means whitewashing, and that has to be nonsense. Maybe the examples I've given are extreme, but I do see it on a daily basis. I'll get me coat.
Neutrality doesn't mean "we don't report negative facts about people". It means that we don't call Hitler a mentally ill puppetmaster who murdered millions of women and children because of his inferiority complex.
The facts of the Holocaust and WW2 speak for themselves - we can present them in a neutral manner and let readers conclude that he was a dark, evil, sick bastard all on their own, without us spelling it out.
Neutrality has nothing to do with excluding verifyable negative facts.
Now this turned into a discussion...
-- Alvaro
On 20-02-2009, at 22:12, George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Phil Nash <pn007a2145@blueyonder.co.uk
wrote:
Judson Dunn wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
It's actually a good point; when one looks at our articles on Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot, a neutral point of view is somewhat unlikely, because we have to report verifiable facts, and such articles cannot be rescued by stuff like "but he was good to his mother" on that point. Some people seem to think that NPOV means whitewashing, and that has to be nonsense. Maybe the examples I've given are extreme, but I do see it on a daily basis. I'll get me coat.
Neutrality doesn't mean "we don't report negative facts about people". It means that we don't call Hitler a mentally ill puppetmaster who murdered millions of women and children because of his inferiority complex.
The facts of the Holocaust and WW2 speak for themselves - we can present them in a neutral manner and let readers conclude that he was a dark, evil, sick bastard all on their own, without us spelling it out.
Neutrality has nothing to do with excluding verifyable negative facts.
-- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
But is that event even notable?
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Judson Dunn cohesion@sleepyhead.orgwrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
chaos! :)
Judson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cohesion
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Judson Dunn wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
Oddly, my first thought when I saw that was, 'but the coverage of the *event* would still be completely neutral'. You don't bias the coverage by declaring something like that, since the editing can still be completely NPOV while having an external influence. Unlike many other editors, I'm a (partially) trained journalist (siren song of web development lured me away from school), and I edit under the influence of that training. It isn't non-neutral to edit for 'as few words as possible, and as close to a 5th grade reading level as the subject allows'. The result is that, while there will be meta-reasons for editing as is done, the *coverage* can still be completely neutral.
This *entire* refutation popped into my head before I was even finished the comic the other day, and is mostly irrelevant, but this list is the only place where I can geek like this.
S.