I've just added the following to [[WP:3RR]]. I think it concisely reflects how these things actually work. Feel free, of course, to edit ;-)
I'm a big fan of 3RR blocks, because sterile reverting is bad. But if someone emails me acknowledging their error and asking to be unblocked, I'll generally do so. The idea is to get people to edit better. Some admins are real hardarses about it, but I'm not sure that's really productive myself.
==I've been blocked under 3RR! What do I do?== First, check if you actually did make a fourth revert in 24 hours or very close to it.
*If you didn't, you should email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), politely point this out and ask to be unblocked. *If you did, you should either wait the 24 hours to calm down, or email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), acknowledge your error and apologise and ask to be unblocked.
Some admins look at the quality of the edits in question, but most admins do not as the rule does not concern itself with edit quality.
Note that historically, public denunciation of the blocking admin has not tended to gain sympathy.
- d.
*If you didn't, you should email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), politely point this out and ask to be unblocked. *If you did, you should either wait the 24 hours to calm down, or email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), acknowledge your error and apologise and ask to be unblocked.
Nicely said. Couldn't have said it better myself. Why do so much people immediately ask for removal of sysop status? Sysops are only human. Just asking nicely will have a much better result.
Mgm
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:37:48 +0000, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I've just added the following to [[WP:3RR]]. I think it concisely reflects how these things actually work. Feel free, of course, to edit ;-)
I'm a big fan of 3RR blocks, because sterile reverting is bad. But if someone emails me acknowledging their error and asking to be unblocked, I'll generally do so. The idea is to get people to edit better. Some admins are real hardarses about it, but I'm not sure that's really productive myself.
==I've been blocked under 3RR! What do I do?== First, check if you actually did make a fourth revert in 24 hours or very close to it.
*If you didn't, you should email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), politely point this out and ask to be unblocked. *If you did, you should either wait the 24 hours to calm down, or email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), acknowledge your error and apologise and ask to be unblocked.
Some admins look at the quality of the edits in question, but most admins do not as the rule does not concern itself with edit quality.
Note that historically, public denunciation of the blocking admin has not tended to gain sympathy.
- d.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I think your wording is a good addition, except for one point.
As I have argued a few times on WP:AN, I think administrators should avoid second-guessing each other. Therefore, I don't think people should be advised to go to a different administrator to unblock them than the one who imposed the block in the first place. This just encourages people who have been blocked to "forum shop" for the softest/friendliest admin they can find, playing administrators against each other. It is clear that there is antipathy between some administrators, and people shouldn't be able to exploit this.
In the case where the 3RR violation is not disputed, and a person wants to apologize, express contrition etc, he or she should do that with the admin who imposed the block. The scenario where A blocks B, B expresses contrition to C, C unblocks B is not a good scenario. It puts the admins into conflict, and undermines their roles. Admins should avoid this scenario if at all possible.
In the case where the blocked member wishes to dispute the 3RR block, that should be done initially with the admin who imposed the block, so that admin can recognize and reverse his own error, and apologize if appropriate to the blocked person, minimizing future bad feelings and conflict. Only if that fails should the blocked person be able to ask a different admin to intervene. The intervention in most cases should be to leave the block in place but to open a discussion about it on AN/I, so that a consensus can be formed about whether the block was proper or not. Once a consensus is established, any admin can implement it.
Brian (BM)
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:03:33 +0100, MacGyverMagic/Mgm macgyvermagic@gmail.com wrote:
*If you didn't, you should email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), politely point this out and ask to be unblocked. *If you did, you should either wait the 24 hours to calm down, or email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), acknowledge your error and apologise and ask to be unblocked.
Nicely said. Couldn't have said it better myself. Why do so much people immediately ask for removal of sysop status? Sysops are only human. Just asking nicely will have a much better result.
Mgm
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:37:48 +0000, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I've just added the following to [[WP:3RR]]. I think it concisely reflects how these things actually work. Feel free, of course, to edit ;-)
I'm a big fan of 3RR blocks, because sterile reverting is bad. But if someone emails me acknowledging their error and asking to be unblocked, I'll generally do so. The idea is to get people to edit better. Some admins are real hardarses about it, but I'm not sure that's really productive myself.
==I've been blocked under 3RR! What do I do?== First, check if you actually did make a fourth revert in 24 hours or very close to it.
*If you didn't, you should email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), politely point this out and ask to be unblocked. *If you did, you should either wait the 24 hours to calm down, or email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), acknowledge your error and apologise and ask to be unblocked.
Some admins look at the quality of the edits in question, but most admins do not as the rule does not concern itself with edit quality.
Note that historically, public denunciation of the blocking admin has not tended to gain sympathy.
- d.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Brian M wrote:
I think your wording is a good addition, except for one point. As I have argued a few times on WP:AN, I think administrators should avoid second-guessing each other. Therefore, I don't think people should be advised to go to a different administrator to unblock them than the one who imposed the block in the first place. This just encourages people who have been blocked to "forum shop" for the softest/friendliest admin they can find, playing administrators against each other. It is clear that there is antipathy between some administrators, and people shouldn't be able to exploit this.
Yeah, rules lawyering and admin-shopping from the creatively antisocial is likely to happen.
That said, they'd do it whether it was said there or not anyway, and admins can't be expected to be on 24-hour call by email. And the wording in that section should be simple and clear to those of good will, not a legalistic horror festooned with "AND NO DON'T TRY THAT GETOUT EITHER" in an attempt to head off those of less good will.
If we can come up with a really concise wording ...
- d.
As I have argued a few times on WP:AN, I think administrators should avoid second-guessing each other. Therefore, I don't think people should be advised to go to a different administrator to unblock them than the one who imposed the block in the first place. This just encourages people who have been blocked to "forum shop" for the softest/friendliest admin they can find, playing administrators against each other. It is clear that there is antipathy between some administrators, and people shouldn't be able to exploit this.
Or (in my experience) sometimes they just e-mail all admins, hoping someone will (for whatever reason) unblock them. It's kind of like standing in an apartment lobby and buzzing all the apartments; someone inevitably buzzes you in.
In the case where the 3RR violation is not disputed, and a person wants to apologize, express contrition etc, he or she should do that with the admin who imposed the block.
I've unblocked 3RR violators immediately for doing exactly that.
In the case where the blocked member wishes to dispute the 3RR block, that should be done initially with the admin who imposed the block, so that admin can recognize and reverse his own error, and apologize if appropriate to the blocked person, minimizing future bad feelings and conflict. Only if that fails should the blocked person be able to ask a different admin to intervene. The intervention in most cases should be to leave the block in place but to open a discussion about it on AN/I, so that a consensus can be formed about whether the block was proper or not. Once a consensus is established, any admin can implement it.
Well, one of the downsides of the more efficient ArbCom is that users want to bring every grievance they have there immediately. It doesn't help that RfC is only intermittently helpful, and RfM appears (at least in my experience) to still be completely non-functioning.
Jay.
MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
*If you didn't, you should email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), politely point this out and ask to be unblocked. *If you did, you should either wait the 24 hours to calm down, or email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), acknowledge your error and apologise and ask to be unblocked.
Nicely said. Couldn't have said it better myself. Why do so much people immediately ask for removal of sysop status? Sysops are only human. Just asking nicely will have a much better result.
Because if a few sysops lost their admin privs because they failed to perform due diligence, then all of them will start performing the diligence that is due. And then you'd stop seeing calls for their ouster for such minor errors.
--Blair
MacGyverMagic/Mgm wrote:
*If you didn't, you should email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), politely point this out and ask to be unblocked. *If you did, you should either wait the 24 hours to calm down, or email the admin who blocked you (or another admin), acknowledge your error and apologise and ask to be unblocked.
Nicely said. Couldn't have said it better myself. Why do so much people immediately ask for removal of sysop status? Sysops are only human. Just asking nicely will have a much better result.
That works two ways. Should it not have been the responsibility of the person doing the blocking to discuss it nicely first? After all, the sysop presumably has more experience here than the person that he is blocking.
It is only natural for people who feel they have been attacked to react with anger, and to feel victimized.
Ec