Hi.
I have just written a new feature which I hope will be useful to users interested in a Recent Changes Patrol system. I wrote:
New feature: Recent Changes Patrol. All edits and new pages are now highlighted on Special:Recentchanges and Special:Newpages until someone "marks" them as "patrolled" using a special link. For new pages, this link appears at the bottom of the article if the link in Recent Changes or New Pages is followed. For all other edits, this link appears only in the diff and only if the diff link is followed from Recent Changes. (Might need to add this functionality to Watchlist too; haven't done that yet.)
THIS FEATURE IS NOT YET LIVE on the real Wikipedia. I'm only announcing it here so that you no longer need to discuss this topic and talk about hypothetical alternatives. Maybe someone will put this feature live on a test server, and then you can have a go at it.
Greetings, Timwi
--- Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
New feature: Recent Changes Patrol. All edits and new pages are now highlighted on Special:Recentchanges and Special:Newpages until someone "marks" them as "patrolled" using a special link. For new pages, this link appears at the bottom of the article if the link in Recent Changes or New Pages is followed. For all other edits, this link appears only in the diff and only if the diff link is followed from Recent Changes. (Might need to add this functionality to Watchlist too; haven't done that yet.)
Neat! But who gets to mark an edit as "patrolled"? Letting an anon or new user do that would tend to defeat the purpose. Also, depending on a single person's judgment may be problematic as well. Ideally an article would need to be viewed by 3 non-newbies/anons to get the "patrolled" tag.
But this at least is a good start. I thank you for coding this feature. :)
-- mav
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Daniel Mayer wrote:
Neat! But who gets to mark an edit as "patrolled"?
I made it so that each wiki can be set up to allow either all logged-in users or only sysops to do this. (techtalk: set $wgOnlySysopsCanPatrol in LocalSettings.php)
Letting an anon or new user do that would tend to defeat the purpose.
I was going to make it so that you can't "patrol" your own edits, but I haven't done that yet. (techtalk: it would require an extra DB query)
Also, depending on a single person's judgment may be problematic as well.
True. Fortunately, the database field I created (rc_patrolled) can be used to store a number, too, so it can be changed to be a counter, and the highlighting can be made to stay until the counter has reached a certain threshold.
But this at least is a good start. I thank you for coding this feature. :)
Welcome :)
Timwi
--- Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
I made it so that each wiki can be set up to allow either all logged-in users or only sysops to do this. (techtalk: set $wgOnlySysopsCanPatrol in LocalSettings.php)
Awesome! On En.wiki I'd say to set this to sysops until a more robust system is in place (see below).
I was going to make it so that you can't "patrol" your own edits, but I haven't done that yet. (techtalk: it would require an extra DB query)
Oh ya - hadn't thought about that. Speaking of extra DB queries, it would also be nice for each user to be able to create white lists in his/her prefs. Then edits by any user in the whitelist would not be bold in RC/new pages for them. Being able to trust by proxy would also be nice. I could say that I trust Ed Poor's judgment, for example, and his white list would also affect what I saw on RC/new pages, but I would not be able to *directly* read his whitelist (Ed would have to set his prefs to allow others to use his white list in this way; default should be [share] though). Yeah, I know, yet more database queries. But I can dream can't I! :)
True. Fortunately, the database field I created (rc_patrolled) can be used to store a number, too, so it can be changed to be a counter, and the highlighting can be made to stay until the counter has reached a certain threshold.
That's wonderful! Make it so (2 sysops or 3 logged-in users depending on whether or not non-admins have this feature) and give me the name of your PayPal account and I'll send you 30 bucks US. I wish I could afford more, but my boyfriend is tight fisted with household finances (he's still pissed about all the money I've spent on Wikimedia domains). Publish your PayPal account name on the mailing list and I'm sure others will send you a few more bucks.
I've been lax on RC patrol due to the huge volume and the fact that 90%+ (usually more like 95%+) of all edits I check were either good to begin with or were already fixed. But this new feature will concentrate my effort more toward the unchecked/lightly-checked edits, thus greatly reducing duplicated effort.
You rock Timwi!
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
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Daniel Mayer wrote:
I was going to make it so that you can't "patrol" your own edits, but I haven't done that yet. (techtalk: it would require an extra DB query)
it would also be nice for each user to be able to create white lists in his/her prefs.
Sorry, but that is starting to sound a little bit too complicated for my taste :-)
give me the name of your PayPal account
I didn't have one so far, but I've always wanted one, so I've created one now. I've registered with the e-mail address timwi@gmx.net. Is that all the information you need to send me money? :-)
You rock Timwi!
Don't get too overexcited :-) Firstly, the feature is not live yet; secondly, it is highly likely that a large number of users won't like the feature no matter how much I tweak it...
However, I am very happy at the positive response so far. Thank you.
Timwi
--- Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
I've registered with the e-mail address timwi@gmx.net. Is that all the information you need to send me money? :-)
Yes - When the feature as described (what was coded so far plus my number set addition) gets committed to CVS and is installed on test, I'll send away. :)
You rock Timwi!
Don't get too overexcited :-) Firstly, the feature is not live yet; secondly, it is highly likely that a large number of users won't like the feature no matter how much I tweak it...
I don't think that will be an issue, if it is, then I'll give the naysayers hell. :)
-- mav
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Daniel Mayer wrote:
--- Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
I've registered with the e-mail address timwi@gmx.net. Is that all the information you need to send me money? :-)
Yes - When the feature as described (what was coded so far plus my number set addition) gets committed to CVS and is installed on test, I'll send away. :)
Can you describe that addition in greater detail, so that I know exactly what I need to do? How exactly will people alter the number, and what values should show up as what?
Timwi
--- Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Can you describe that addition in greater detail, so that I know exactly what I need to do? How exactly will people alter the number, and what values should show up as what?
Nothing elaborate or hard at this point. Setting a sitewide value, as I suggested (admin only for en.wiki and 2 admins to make things happen), would be fine for now.
When viewing diffs, admins could be presented with a "checked for vandalism" box they could click. Then as soon as two admins have selected that option, then that page edit would be grayed out on RC and newpages (watchlists would be nice, if that is easy to code, otherwise forget it for now). But if somebody else finds a better way to do that, or if you think of a better way, then do that instead.
-- mav
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--- Daniel Mayer maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
When viewing diffs,
Make that, "When viewing cur diffs"
-- mav
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Daniel Mayer wrote:
--- Daniel Mayer maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
When viewing diffs,
Make that, "When viewing cur diffs"
Actually, it does it not only for cur diffs, but all diffs you see by following a link on Recent Changes.
Daniel Mayer wrote:
--- Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
Can you describe that addition in greater detail, so that I know exactly what I need to do? How exactly will people alter the number, and what values should show up as what?
Nothing elaborate or hard at this point. Setting a sitewide value, as I suggested (admin only for en.wiki and 2 admins to make things happen), would be fine for now.
I have thought of another problem. Do they have to be different admins? Currently I am not keeping track of who did the approving, so it is perfectly possible for the same admin to raise the value twice (and this can happen inadvertently very easily: just accidentally hit the link twice).
When viewing diffs, admins could be presented with a "checked for vandalism" box they could click.
Well, this already exists, except it's not a box, but a link, and it doesn't say "checked for vandalism", but "mark as patrolled". :-)
Then as soon as two admins have selected that option, then that page edit would be grayed out on RC and newpages
The way I have done it now, the edits are not greyed out, but instead unchecked edits are highlighted with a yellow background colour, and checked ones display as they do now. I thought of greying things out first, but it looked really rubbish when most of Recent Changes was marked as patrolled.
(watchlists would be nice, if that is easy to code, otherwise forget it for now).
Unfortunately, this is not easy, because for some reason the Watchlist was made to use the 'cur' table rather than the 'recentchanges' table. I was told that the main reason is that recentchanges only goes back one week, while people might want to have a Watchlist that goes back further. In return, the Watchlist displays only the most recent edit for each page on your Watchlist.
Timwi
--- Timwi timwi@gmx.net wrote:
I have thought of another problem. Do they have to be different admins? Currently I am not keeping track of who did the approving, so it is perfectly possible for the same admin to raise the value twice (and this can happen inadvertently very easily: just accidentally hit the link twice).
Well at this stage I think we can live with that just as we lived for months with a rollback feature that rolled back *any* top edit (sometimes resulting in restored vandalism). I'm sure this will get refined more in the future.
But if you feel up to the task and have time, then by all means plunge forward.
Well, this already exists, except it's not a box, but a link, and it doesn't say "checked for vandalism", but "mark as patrolled". :-)
That works. :)
The way I have done it now, the edits are not greyed out, but instead unchecked edits are highlighted with a yellow background colour, and checked ones display as they do now. I thought of greying things out first, but it looked really rubbish when most of Recent Changes was marked as patrolled.
OK - that works too.
(watchlists would be nice, if that is easy to code, otherwise forget it for now).
Unfortunately, this is not easy, because for some reason the Watchlist was made to use the 'cur' table rather than the 'recentchanges' table. I was told that the main reason is that recentchanges only goes back one week, while people might want to have a Watchlist that goes back further. In return, the Watchlist displays only the most recent edit for each page on your Watchlist.
A future feature then.
-- mav
Timwi
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On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:40:22 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Mayer wrote:
... it would also be nice for each user to be able to create white lists in his/her prefs. Then edits by any user in the whitelist would not be bold in RC/new pages for them.
If this is going to be implemented, it has to be made optional. Not everyone will want people to know which recent changes they have looked at. Making it possible to check up on which pages a user is reading has privacy implications that need to be taken into account if this feature is written.
Angela.
--- Angela_ beesley@gmail.com wrote:
If this is going to be implemented, it has to be made optional. Not everyone will want people to know which recent changes they have looked at. Making it possible to check up on which pages a user is reading has privacy implications that need to be taken into account if this feature is written.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. The white list would be of *users* not articles. Sharing your white list would be an obtion that could be de-selected, yes.
-- mav
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Daniel Mayer wrote:
--- Angela_ beesley@gmail.com wrote:
If this is going to be implemented, it has to be made optional. Not everyone will want people to know which recent changes they have looked at. Making it possible to check up on which pages a user is reading has privacy implications that need to be taken into account if this feature is written.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. The white list would be of *users* not articles. Sharing your white list would be an obtion that could be de-selected, yes.
I think what Angela was referring to is that if we had such a white list, then it would be possible to put a single user on it and then see what changes they have looked at.
mav wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't clear. The white list would be of *users* not articles. Sharing your white list would be an option that could be de-selected, yes.
Yes, but by having someone on your whitelist, you could see what they had looked at.
If I was seriously looking for vandalism in recent changes, I might not mind those pages being grayed out to people who have me on their whitelist, but other times I might look at a page without really bothering to check it properly. At those times, I don't want to be grayed out as I don't want to take responsibility for looking at an article which I haven't really made much of an attempt to check. The person being watched should be able to turn the feature on and off as they like.
Also, sometimes people might want to be reading Wikipedia but not be visible. They might not want people to know they are around and looking at recent changes. The whitelist could be used to tell exactly when someone is online, which could be rather annoying if you are trying to avoid that person who has you as the only person on their whitelist.
Angela.
--- Angela_ beesley@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, but by having someone on your whitelist, you could see what they had looked at.
If they look at a diff and mark it as OK, then they should take responsibility for it. If they don't want to take responsibility, then they should not not mark it as being OK.
Nowhere have I seen that this would happen automatically just be looking at an article. That would be silly as you rightly noted.
-- mav
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mav wrote:
Nowhere have I seen that this would happen automatically just be looking at an article. That would be silly as you rightly noted.
Oh, ok. I misread Timwi's initial post about this. I thought the marking was triggered automatically whenever someone followed a link from recent changes. It would be easier than having to follow an additional link, but I suppose having it this way does prevent the issues of looking at changes without wanting to approve them. Maybe that could be an extra option in preferences - "approve every page I access from recent changes".
It would be really helpful if checked edits would influence my watchlist rather than just recent changes.
Angela.