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stevertigo

17 Aug 2010 17 Aug '10

6:54 a.m.

I propose (again) a change to the "Wikipedia:WikiProject [Name]" namespace of the form: "Wikipedia:WikiProject [Name]" >> "Project:Name" -SC

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Bejinhan

17 Aug 17 Aug

7:05 a.m.

Do you have any reasons for that? ... Bejinhan On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 1:54 PM, stevertigo <stvrtg(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I propose (again) a change to the "Wikipedia:WikiProject [Name]" namespace of the form: "Wikipedia:WikiProject [Name]" >> "Project:Name" -SC _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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Liam Wyatt

7:28 a.m.

I would presume for ease of use - it's shorter to write and is more immediately clear (to the non-wikipedian) what is meant. I guess that the underlying idea is that Wikiprojects (and indeed any form of collaboration that is more complex than what can be handled in an individual article's talkpage) are such a fundamental part of the way we go about building the encyclopedia that they deserve a namespace in their own right. Is that it Stevevertigo? On the other hand, I presume that this would entail the creation of a new namespace in the software but I'm not sure how tricky that implementation would be both on the technical side or the community side. Is there an on-wiki essay or proposal that you can link to to give a more detailed discussion of the idea? -Liam wittylama.com/blog Peace, love & metadata On 17 August 2010 07:05, Bejinhan <bejinhan(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Do you have any reasons for that? ... Bejinhan On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 1:54 PM, stevertigo <stvrtg(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I propose (again) a change to the "Wikipedia:WikiProject [Name]" namespace of the form: "Wikipedia:WikiProject [Name]" >> "Project:Name" -SC _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

_______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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stevertigo

7:37 a.m.

Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I guess that the underlying idea is that Wikiprojects (and indeed any form of collaboration that is more complex than what can be handled in an individual article's talkpage) are such a fundamental part of the way we go about building the encyclopedia that they deserve a namespace in their own right. Is that it Stevevertigo?

Exactly.

Is there an on-wiki essay or proposal that you can link to to give a more detailed discussion of the idea?

Nope. -SC

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stevertigo

7:31 a.m.

Bejinhan <bejinhan(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Do you have any reasons for that? ...

Ease. -SC

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Ray Saintonge

7:48 a.m.

stevertigo wrote:

I propose (again) a change to the "Wikipedia:WikiProject [Name]" namespace of the form: "Wikipedia:WikiProject [Name]" >> "Project:Name"

One problem: The major wikis are already known as "Projects". IIRC "Wikiproject" is a product of disambiguation. Perhaps a different name might work. Ec

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Casey Brown

7:51 a.m.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:

One problem: The major wikis are already known as "Projects". IIRC "Wikiproject" is a product of disambiguation. Perhaps a different name might work.

...and I'm pretty sure that "Project:" is a required alias for the Wikipedia namespace, so we definitely couldn't use "Project:". -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023

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JamesR

8:17 a.m.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Casey Brown <lists(a)caseybrown.org> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:

One problem: The major wikis are already known as "Projects". IIRC "Wikiproject" is a product of disambiguation. Perhaps a different name might work.

...and I'm pretty sure that "Project:" is a required alias for the Wikipedia namespace, so we definitely couldn't use "Project:".

Was exactly what I was going to mention. For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project:About goes to [[Wikipedia:About]]. Therefore, it's definitely a software limitation. -- JamesR English Wikipedia Administrator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JamesR

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David Gerard

8:41 a.m.

On 17 August 2010 08:51, Casey Brown <lists(a)caseybrown.org> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:

> One problem: The major wikis are already known as "Projects". IIRC > "Wikiproject" is a product of disambiguation. Perhaps a different name > might work.

...and I'm pretty sure that "Project:" is a required alias for the Wikipedia namespace, so we definitely couldn't use "Project:".

Wikiproject: would be fine as a namespace name. - d.

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FT2

9:41 a.m.

It would, that's a sensible idea. Another easy option is to use a term like "collaboration", or to put the topic first. "Collaboration:Cosmology"? "Military history collaboration"? FT2 On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:41 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 17 August 2010 08:51, Casey Brown <lists(a)caseybrown.org> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net>

wrote:

> One problem: The major wikis are already known as "Projects". IIRC > "Wikiproject" is a product of disambiguation. Perhaps a different name > might work.

...and I'm pretty sure that "Project:" is a required alias for the Wikipedia namespace, so we definitely couldn't use "Project:".

Wikiproject: would be fine as a namespace name. - d. _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

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stevertigo

9:54 a.m.

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Wikiproject: would be fine as a namespace name.

That works. Something simple. -SC

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David Gerard

10:01 a.m.

On 17 August 2010 10:54, stevertigo <stvrtg(a)gmail.com> wrote:

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> Wikiproject: would be fine as a namespace name.

That works. Something simple.

Can I predict a heated 100-kilobyte discussion over "Wikiproject:" versus "WikiProject:"? - d.

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Carcharoth

10:03 a.m.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 11:01 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 17 August 2010 10:54, stevertigo <stvrtg(a)gmail.com> wrote:

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> Wikiproject: would be fine as a namespace name.

That works. Something simple.

Can I predict a heated 100-kilobyte discussion over "Wikiproject:" versus "WikiProject:"?

100 kilobytes? That seems a gross underestimate... Carcharoth

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stevertigo

10:04 a.m.

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Can I predict a heated 100-kilobyte discussion over "Wikiproject:" versus "WikiProject:"?

Is there that much CamelCase support still? I thought it was bad enough we were stuck with sticking "wiki-" onto everything. -SC

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Chad

10:34 a.m.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:51 AM, Casey Brown <lists(a)caseybrown.org> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote:

One problem: The major wikis are already known as "Projects". IIRC "Wikiproject" is a product of disambiguation. Perhaps a different name might work.

...and I'm pretty sure that "Project:" is a required alias for the Wikipedia namespace, so we definitely couldn't use "Project:". -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023

This is true. And it's exactly what was said last time it was requested[0]. Any other choice (WikiProject, etc) would work just fine. -Chad [0] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/18793

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David Gerard

10:39 a.m.

On 17 August 2010 11:34, Chad <innocentkiller(a)gmail.com> wrote:

This is true. And it's exactly what was said last time it was requested[0]. Any other choice (WikiProject, etc) would work just fine. [0] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/18793

Run the idea of a "Wikiproject:" namespace past the village pump, build a consensus and then a new namespace should be easy enough. The "Wikipedia:Wikipedia WikiProject" or whatever it is faff is minor but has annoyed me enough I'd go "my goodness yes" to a shorter namespace for them. - d.

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stevertigo

1:43 p.m.

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Run the idea of a "Wikiproject:" namespace past the village pump, build a consensus and then a new namespace should be easy enough. The "Wikipedia:Wikipedia WikiProject" or whatever it is faff is minor but has annoyed me enough I'd go "my goodness yes" to a shorter namespace for them.

Project would be ideal, but there are 'technical issues.' 'Wikiproject' works, but 'Collaboration' has certain semantics that 'Wikiproject' does not. And it has the added bonus in that it doesn't have the word "wiki-" in it. I'm firmly on the fence between the two. -SC

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stevertigo

1:54 p.m.

stevertigo <stvrtg(a)gmail.com> wrote:

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Run the idea of a "Wikiproject:" namespace past the village pump, > build a consensus and then a new namespace should be easy enough.

Posted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29#Rename_…

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David Gerard

1:57 p.m.

On 17 August 2010 14:54, stevertigo <stvrtg(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Posted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29#Rename_…

Supported :-D - d.

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stevertigo

2:02 p.m.

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Supported :-D

srsly. <wondering if "Project" can still work if we hack from Cyrillic or IPA glyphs> -SC

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David Gerard

2:32 p.m.

On 17 August 2010 15:02, stevertigo <stvrtg(a)gmail.com> wrote:

David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> Supported :-D

srsly.

And as predicted, all the queru^Wdetailed discussion is about what to call it. Join us now and feed the bikeshedding!

<wondering if "Project" can still work if we hack from Cyrillic or IPA glyphs>

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - d.

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quiddity

4:44 p.m.

If these pages were moved to "Wikiproject:..." would there be any problems with our continuing to use WP: as a shortcut prefix? eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut#List_of_prefixes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Namespace#Aliases http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_shortcuts#Topic-oriented_Wik… I assume it would be basically fine, as those are all using a handmade redirect: eg http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WPCAT&redirect=no so we'd just have to leave the shortcut-redirects themselves, in Wikipedia namespace. but thought I should ask, just in case... Quiddity

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stevertigo

21 Aug 21 Aug

11:26 p.m.

Current tally appears to be ~ 16 in favor of changing it, to 9 opposed to changing it. The objections appear to be based in technical criticism, which I've commented on. I think the technical objections are overstated. -SC quiddity <pandiculation(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I assume it would be basically fine, as those are >all using a handmade redirect

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stevertigo

25 Aug 25 Aug

5:19 a.m.

I've moved discussion to a meta page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_namespace , and made a tally. I wonder if its possible that someone from the technical staff to give us an unbiased breakdown of the technical requirements and server costs to implement a namespace change. -SC quiddity <pandiculation(a)gmail.com> wrote:

If these pages were moved to "Wikiproject:..." would there be any problems with our continuing to use WP: as a shortcut prefix?

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23 comments

11 participants

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participants (11)

Bejinhan
Carcharoth
Casey Brown
Chad
David Gerard
FT2
JamesR
Liam Wyatt
quiddity
Ray Saintonge
stevertigo