Jimbo,
Since you haven't responded, I'm assuming you have absolutely no problem with my chronicling the very real procedural problems Wikipedia faces.
I've started a livejournal: http://parkerpeters.livejournal.com/
I obviously can't leave these anywhere where you or your minions might want to change them, after all.
I intend to pull no punches. I've left two Lessons for any newcomers to wikipedia, and I'll be leaving more in the coming days.
If any of you are actually interested in honest dissent intended to (hopefully) make wikipedia better, you'll find it here, because you're certainly not going to find it on a "moderated" list where the slightest dissent from the groupthink is answered with cries of "troll."
Parker
I thought this guy was on moderation. Alphax, are you sleeping? (Hmm...since Australia is upside down, do bats in Australia sleep right-side-up?)
On 1/18/07, Parker Peters parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
Jimbo,
Since you haven't responded, I'm assuming you have absolutely no problem with my chronicling the very real procedural problems Wikipedia faces.
I've started a livejournal: http://parkerpeters.livejournal.com/
I obviously can't leave these anywhere where you or your minions might want to change them, after all.
I intend to pull no punches. I've left two Lessons for any newcomers to wikipedia, and I'll be leaving more in the coming days.
If any of you are actually interested in honest dissent intended to (hopefully) make wikipedia better, you'll find it here, because you're certainly not going to find it on a "moderated" list where the slightest dissent from the groupthink is answered with cries of "troll."
Parker _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Guettarda,
I waited over a week after having my account with Gmail fixed following the major database corruption. This necessitated the creation of a new Gmail account as the old one was beyond recovery.
I sent a personal email to Jimbo regarding this, because I knew that someone would accuse me of making a new account to "get around" moderation.
Don't worry. You've successfully driven away all honest dissent from wikipedia and ensured it never gets better.
Parker
On 1/18/07, Guettarda guettarda@gmail.com wrote:
I thought this guy was on moderation. Alphax, are you sleeping? (Hmm...since Australia is upside down, do bats in Australia sleep right-side-up?)
On 1/18/07, Parker Peters parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
Jimbo,
Since you haven't responded, I'm assuming you have absolutely no problem with my chronicling the very real procedural problems Wikipedia faces.
I've started a livejournal: http://parkerpeters.livejournal.com/
I obviously can't leave these anywhere where you or your minions might want to change them, after all.
I intend to pull no punches. I've left two Lessons for any newcomers to wikipedia, and I'll be leaving more in the coming days.
If any of you are actually interested in honest dissent intended to (hopefully) make wikipedia better, you'll find it here, because you're certainly not going to find it on a "moderated" list where the slightest dissent from the groupthink is answered with cries of "troll."
Parker _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 1/18/07, Parker Peters parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
Don't worry. You've successfully driven away all honest dissent from wikipedia and ensured it never gets better.
Who told him our secret plan?
On 1/18/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
Don't worry. You've successfully driven away all honest dissent from wikipedia and ensured it never gets better.
Who told him our secret plan?
Shhh... there is no cabal, remember?
I'm a cabalist, just like Madonna.:P
-l
On 1/18/07, Parker Peters parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
I waited over a week after having my account with Gmail fixed following the major database corruption. This necessitated the creation of a new Gmail account as the old one was beyond recovery.
"Database corruption"... so, is that what they're calling it these days?
[ http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-January/060314.html ]
Parker Peters wrote:
Guettarda,
I waited over a week after having my account with Gmail fixed following the major database corruption. This necessitated the creation of a new Gmail account as the old one was beyond recovery.
Without some sort of corroborating evidence, why should we believe you?
You saw the troubles I was having yourself, and I sent private emails to several others explaining things as well, as well as explaining that I was specifically NOT replying on-list because I had emailed Jimbo and was waiting response before doing something that would cause people to falsely accuse me of avoiding moderation.
Parker
On 1/18/07, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
Parker Peters wrote:
Guettarda,
I waited over a week after having my account with Gmail fixed following
the
major database corruption. This necessitated the creation of a new Gmail account as the old one was beyond recovery.
Without some sort of corroborating evidence, why should we believe you?
-- Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia "We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP
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parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/18/07, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
Without some sort of corroborating evidence, why should we believe you?
You saw the troubles I was having yourself...
We saw you accidentally replying as "Bob" from your "onmywayoutser" address, or vice versa; then hand-editing a response or two in a clumsy attempt to cover it up; then disingeniously claiming that there had been some kind of bizarre gmail failure. (I mean, +1 for creativity in a desperate situation, but minus several million for believability. Though I suppose you get a few more points for brazen chutzpah for having somehow convinced the moderators to let messages from your new account through; I can't imagine how you managed that.)
On 1/19/07, Steve Summit scs@eskimo.com wrote: <snip>
Though I suppose you get a few more points for brazen chutzpah for having somehow convinced the moderators to let messages from your new account through; I can't imagine how you managed that.)
It's like this: all of the moderators are in the cabal with the rest of us, so they cleverly made up a plan where they let his messages through and then bribed us so that we wouldn't take him seriously, and thus brake his spirit.
You see, it's all part of the conspiracy!
On 1/18/07, Oskar Sigvardsson oskarsigvardsson@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/19/07, Steve Summit scs@eskimo.com wrote:
<snip> > Though I suppose you get a few more points for brazen chutzpah > for having somehow convinced the moderators to let messages from > your new account through; I can't imagine how you managed that.)
It's like this: all of the moderators are in the cabal with the rest of us, so they cleverly made up a plan where they let his messages through and then bribed us so that we wouldn't take him seriously, and thus brake his spirit.
You see, it's all part of the conspiracy!
Actually, his messages aren't going through at all. The moderation cabal has set up a system which produces automated fake responses to his posts that are only sent to him and others on moderation. This post is one of the only real ones, as the cabal has decided to place me into the so called "Troll Honeypot" for similarly unfounded reasons.
Anthony
Everything I sent was unedited and exactly as I was seeing it come in to my account.
Whether you choose to believe the truth or not is your own choice, though it saddens me that you choose not to.
Parker
On 1/18/07, Steve Summit scs@eskimo.com wrote:
parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/18/07, Alphax (Wikipedia email) alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
Without some sort of corroborating evidence, why should we believe you?
You saw the troubles I was having yourself...
We saw you accidentally replying as "Bob" from your "onmywayoutser" address, or vice versa; then hand-editing a response or two in a clumsy attempt to cover it up; then disingeniously claiming that there had been some kind of bizarre gmail failure. (I mean, +1 for creativity in a desperate situation, but minus several million for believability. Though I suppose you get a few more points for brazen chutzpah for having somehow convinced the moderators to let messages from your new account through; I can't imagine how you managed that.)
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parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
Everything I sent was unedited and exactly as I was seeing it come in to my account.
You saw the message from onmywayoutster@gmail.com, that was signed as being from "Bob"? And the reply to that message, three minutes later, also from onmywayoutster@gmail.com, where the attribution line "On 1/9/07, Parker Peters wrote:" was crossed out, and "Bob Petrovichwrestfan01@gmail.com" written above it in crayon? You're right, I am getting unduly cynical in my old age; I ought to believe that both of those were due to a gmail error. Such very natural database failure modes, too, if you come to think of it.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Parker Peters stated for the record:
Everything I sent was unedited and exactly as I was seeing it come in to my account.
Whether you choose to believe the truth or not is your own choice, though it saddens me that you choose not to.
Parker
Will it make you so sad that in your despair you give up trying to lie to us and just go away?
- -- Sean Barrett | Fac futuaris et caballus sean@epoptic.com | in quo huc equitasti.
Please stop this. Civility is a two-way street, and we should afford even those who are critical of us some basic courtesy (that is the case even if they do not show the same courtesy in response).
I have put Parker Peters' new email address onto moderation, and that, I hope, is the end of the matter. If he/she wants to continue to contribute to the mailing list in a civil fashion, he or she is more than welcome to do so, via the moderation queue.
~Mark Ryan
On 19/01/07, Sean Barrett sean@epoptic.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Parker Peters stated for the record:
Everything I sent was unedited and exactly as I was seeing it come in to my account.
Whether you choose to believe the truth or not is your own choice, though it saddens me that you choose not to.
Parker
Will it make you so sad that in your despair you give up trying to lie to us and just go away?
Sean Barrett | Fac futuaris et caballus sean@epoptic.com | in quo huc equitasti. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFFsD+O/SVOiq2uhHMRAhn5AKCciF0HIfaBdqfHumxxXRIGUF+17gCfTCii YN+TfEVhAqIX3oeR0+UvZRY= =yY9R -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Mark Ryan wrote:
Please stop this. Civility is a two-way street, and we should afford even those who are critical of us some basic courtesy (that is the case even if they do not show the same courtesy in response).
I have put Parker Peters' new email address onto moderation, and that, I hope, is the end of the matter. If he/she wants to continue to contribute to the mailing list in a civil fashion, he or she is more than welcome to do so, via the moderation queue.
Civility is a two way street. But when people are abusing our good faith by creating problems on Wikipedia and then assuming differing identities to create a hostile environment on the mailing list, I think it's going too far in one direction to keep turning the other cheek. I'm a little disappointed people who abuse our good faith are offered such hospitality, but well aware I have the option open to simply ignore such behaviour from now on.
Steve block
On 19/01/07, Steve Block steve.block@myrealbox.com wrote:
I'm a little disappointed people who abuse our good faith are offered such hospitality, but well aware I have the option open to simply ignore such behaviour from now on.
I urge all readers to deal with such silliness by ignoring it and talking about useful and sensible things.
(Although I do acknowledge that there are times when suppressing one's incredulous reaction requires gritting one's teeth hard enough to break a molar.)
- d.
I've been nothing but civil, but I'm the one being put on moderation.
That shows what the groupthink is like around here. Do you all drink the same kool-aid too?
Parker
On 1/18/07, Mark Ryan ultrablue@gmail.com wrote:
Please stop this. Civility is a two-way street, and we should afford even those who are critical of us some basic courtesy (that is the case even if they do not show the same courtesy in response).
I have put Parker Peters' new email address onto moderation, and that, I hope, is the end of the matter. If he/she wants to continue to contribute to the mailing list in a civil fashion, he or she is more than welcome to do so, via the moderation queue.
~Mark Ryan
On 19/01/07, Sean Barrett sean@epoptic.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Parker Peters stated for the record:
Everything I sent was unedited and exactly as I was seeing it come in
to my
account.
Whether you choose to believe the truth or not is your own choice,
though it
saddens me that you choose not to.
Parker
Will it make you so sad that in your despair you give up trying to lie to us and just go away?
Sean Barrett | Fac futuaris et caballus sean@epoptic.com | in quo huc equitasti. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFFsD+O/SVOiq2uhHMRAhn5AKCciF0HIfaBdqfHumxxXRIGUF+17gCfTCii YN+TfEVhAqIX3oeR0+UvZRY= =yY9R -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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On 19/01/07, Parker Peters parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
I've been nothing but civil, but I'm the one being put on moderation.
That shows what the groupthink is like around here. Do you all drink the same kool-aid too?
You're on moderation because you were on moderation on your previous email address. Nothing more, nothing less. Did you expect to have the moderation lifted when you started contributing with a different email address?
~Mark Ryan
"Parker Peters" parkerpeters1002@gmail.com writes:
I've been nothing but civil, but I'm the one being put on moderation.
That shows what the groupthink is like around here. Do you all drink the same kool-aid too?
Parker
Yes. We can't help it, it is so delicious.
Oh yeah!
--Gwern Try the cheesecake sometime, it goes great with strawberries.
On 1/20/07, Parker Peters parkerpeters1002@gmail.com wrote:
I've been nothing but civil, but I'm the one being put on moderation.
That shows what the groupthink is like around here. Do you all drink the same kool-aid too?
Chill. We're working together for a common goal. We adopt certain conventions to help achieve that. We reject suggestions made simply for the purpose of argument, or ones that are clearly not workable or worth spending time on. If that meets your definition of groupthink, then fine - we have far too much to do without being bothered by such a trollish label.
Steve
We saw you accidentally replying as "Bob" from your "onmywayoutser" address, or vice versa; then hand-editing a response or two in a clumsy attempt to cover it up; then disingeniously claiming that there had been some kind of bizarre gmail failure. (I mean, +1 for creativity in a desperate situation, but minus several million for believability. Though I suppose you get a few more points for brazen chutzpah for having somehow convinced the moderators to let messages from your new account through; I can't imagine how you managed that.)
I would give him +10 for creativity - it was a damn good try. I knew it was rubbish, but I wanted to believe it, I really did...
Parker Peters wrote:
You saw the troubles I was having yourself, and I sent private emails to several others explaining things as well, as well as explaining that I was specifically NOT replying on-list because I had emailed Jimbo and was waiting response before doing something that would cause people to falsely accuse me of avoiding moderation.
Yes, I saw the, um, troubles you were having. That's exactly why I'm finding it so hard to believe you.