On 09/11/06, Matt R &lt;matt_crypto(a)yahoo.co.uk&gt; wrote: This is where people using their real names[1] instead of inscrutable handles comes in very useful. Of course, nobody would want a world where every Wikipedia contributor wrote under their real name... heaven forbid! [2] Almost certainly not. Hear, hear. [1] Cf. http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?RealName [2] </sarcasm>. Although I just came across this proposal, which I really like: http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2004-April/021916.html -- Earle Martin http://downlode.org/ http://purl.org/net/earlemartin/

Phil Sandifer wrote: Oxford Style Manual: "Though common in speech it is still substandard usage, and should be avoided in formal writing: Necessity may in time establish 'they' as an accepted non-gender-specific singular pronoun in English, but this has yet to happen." Your proclamation that opponents of the singular 'they' are unreasonable is nothing more than blatant sophistry. To be sure the word 'reasonable' does not appear in 5.204 when the author of that passage speaks of those who "resort to nontraditional gimmicks" or who "use 'they' as a kind of singular pronoun." What conclusion should I draw from the use of "kind of"? Maybe the author uses the word "reasonable" to emphasize that writers on that side of the divide are still reasonable people despite their aberrant grammar. I use and will continue to use the generic masculine, and will object when someone insists on imposing sub-standard grammar for the sake of political correctness. I find the use of a generic feminine equally acceptable. I don't really object to phrases like "he or she" but they can become awkward in some contexts. A usage like "s/he" has the artificial flavour of a condom over one's pen. Good writers will avoid imposing one form or the other, and look for alternatives. Had you read further in paragraph 5.204 you would have seen, "What is wanted, in short, is a kind of invisible gender neutrality. There are many ways to achieve such language, but it takes though and often some hard work" Ec

On 11/10/06, geni &lt;geniice(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: "Many words that are now unused will be rekindled, Many fade now well-regarded, if Usage wills it so, To whom the laws, rules, and control of language belong." --Horace, ars poetica, 70-72 My favorite lines to quote in these kinds of squabbles. -- Robth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Robth)

ZOMG TEH SINGULAR THEY! END OF DA WORLD! NOONE SHALL SURVIVE! On 11/10/06, Ray Saintonge &lt;saintonge(a)telus.net&gt; wrote: -- ST47 Editor, en.wikipedia

On 11/10/06, Phil Sandifer &lt;Snowspinner(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I'm generally in favor of using singular they, but sometimes it is a bad idea. Saying "I hate them!" or "They can worry about themselves" when talking about one person is just plain silly. --Oskar