"Ron Ritzman" wrote
The same could be asked about notability. Just what makes one suspect that a particular person/band/school/company/webcomic etc. is not notable?
There are fairly clearly several paths. For example, click 'Random Article' until you find something that annoys you, and then tag it. Searchinge the whole site for some less-usual word or phrase will turn up 'neglected' pages at the far end of the search. There is probably too much personal animus in PROD and CSD A7 now, in some cases.
Charles
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Don't forget the various cleanup categories -- tags like {{wikify}} and {{notability}} don't lead to immediate deletion, but will eventually draw the attention of experienced editors who may decide to nominate a given article for deletion.
When I nom things for deletion, it's usually in the course of my "normal duties" -- I'll find them cleaning up after vandals, while trying to sort categories, or clean up articles in general. Things like that.
And there is always [[Special:Random]], but I try to stay away from using that too often.
-Luna
On 12/28/06, Luna lunasantin@gmail.com wrote:
Don't forget the various cleanup categories -- tags like {{wikify}} and {{notability}} don't lead to immediate deletion, but will eventually draw the attention of experienced editors who may decide to nominate a given article for deletion.
Still, it must take a lot of time to do the research necessary to determine "deletability". Therefore, with the exception of obvious BS, you would still have to see something in the article that prompts you to stop and do such research. The "prod" tag probably saves time in this respect. The only disadvantage with this is that it may cause good but inactive articles to get deleted simply because nobody removes an improperly added prod. That's why a "prod patrol" would be a good idea if there already isn't one.
And there is always [[Special:Random]], but I try to stay away from using that too often.
I,m sure that a common vision of "antideletionists" is of this geek with no life sitting around all day pressing the random button looking for deletable articles similar to the image of the antispammer sitting in front of his PC waiting for spam to come in so he can complain about it. (now of days he doesn't have to wait long :(
On 28/12/06, Ron Ritzman ritzman@gmail.com wrote:
The "prod" tag probably saves time in this respect. The only disadvantage with this is that it may cause good but inactive articles to get deleted simply because nobody removes an improperly added prod. That's why a "prod patrol" would be a good idea if there already isn't one.
This is easy and possible; the interested can always do so.
Thankfully, the process of undeleting a PROD is as lightweight as placing a PROD - that is, an admin can Just Undelete. (Presumably an editor would then want to improve the article so people wouldn't want to PROD it again.)
I,m sure that a common vision of "antideletionists" is of this geek with no life sitting around all day pressing the random button looking for deletable articles similar to the image of the antispammer sitting in front of his PC waiting for spam to come in so he can complain about it. (now of days he doesn't have to wait long :(
Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!
- d.
Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!
Tangent: so the banning of IP article creation has totally failed in its stated goal, namely to cut back on the "FIREHOSE OF CRAP"?
Interesting. Perhaps it's time for a re-examination of that policy.
-David
On 28/12/06, David Ashby humble.fool@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!
Tangent: so the banning of IP article creation has totally failed in its stated goal, namely to cut back on the "FIREHOSE OF CRAP"? Interesting. Perhaps it's time for a re-examination of that policy.
I would suggest so. Hopefully we should get the numbers after the current fundraiser season is through.
- d.
On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:24:39 -0700, "David Ashby" humble.fool@gmail.com wrote:
Tangent: so the banning of IP article creation has totally failed in its stated goal, namely to cut back on the "FIREHOSE OF CRAP"?
No, it's reduced it quite noticeably. If you have to register a new account and wait four days after your vanity article is deleted it really can hold you up. At least one individual has recently stated that he'll take his vanity page to MySpace because it's miles better (which, of course, it is, for vanity pages).
Guy (JzG)
David Ashby wrote:
Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!
Tangent: so the banning of IP article creation has totally failed in its stated goal, namely to cut back on the "FIREHOSE OF CRAP"?
Interesting. Perhaps it's time for a re-examination of that policy.
-David
The banning of article creation by anonymous users significantly reduced the number of junk articles being created. Back then I was one of the people tagging, not deleting, but I remember the decision.
But that was over a year ago. Wikipedia has grown quite a lot in that time, and has become far, far more popular with people seeking to use Wikipedia for promotional purposes. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the rate at which unsuitable articles are being created now far exceeds the rate at which they were being created a year ago.
I fail to see your point, however. Allowing anonymous users to create articles again would result in yet more unsuitable articles. How does that help anything?
-Gurch
David Gerard wrote:
Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!
I think anyone who uses a speedy tag should have to do an hour of this. Might make people realise what the speedy tags really are for.
On 29/12/06, Steve Block steve.block@myrealbox.com wrote:
David Gerard wrote:
Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!
I think anyone who uses a speedy tag should have to do an hour of this. Might make people realise what the speedy tags really are for.
I think the problem is that, doing their level best in good faith to deal with the FIREHOSE OF CRAP, they get punch-drunk from repeatedly being hit over the head with the sum total of human stupidity and eventually scream "AIEEEE IT'S ALL CRAAAAP KILL IT ALL KILL IT WITH A STICK!!!"
Which is probably not good.
So A7 needs to be much less grey-area that it appears to be in practice. This will reduce stress for all.
- d.
David Gerard wrote:
I think the problem is that, doing their level best in good faith to deal with the FIREHOSE OF CRAP, they get punch-drunk from repeatedly being hit over the head with the sum total of human stupidity and eventually scream "AIEEEE IT'S ALL CRAAAAP KILL IT ALL KILL IT WITH A STICK!!!"
The feeling is not entirely unknown to me.
Which is probably not good.
Yeah, if nothing else, I doubt the neighbours appreciate the screaming.
So A7 needs to be much less grey-area that it appears to be in practice. This will reduce stress for all.
I agree.
-Gurch
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:59:14 +0000, "David Gerard" dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I think the problem is that, doing their level best in good faith to deal with the FIREHOSE OF CRAP, they get punch-drunk from repeatedly being hit over the head with the sum total of human stupidity and eventually scream "AIEEEE IT'S ALL CRAAAAP KILL IT ALL KILL IT WITH A STICK!!!"
One of the best and most persuasive statements of both the problem and the reason it can't be easily solved :-)
This is why I only do CAT:CSD every now and then. You get very cynical very quickly.
Guy (JzG)
David Gerard wrote:
On 29/12/06, Steve Block steve.block@myrealbox.com wrote:
David Gerard wrote:
Anyone who thinks they're an "inclusionist" should do Special:Newpages patrol some time. OH MY GOODNESS THE FIREHOSE OF CRAP!
I think anyone who uses a speedy tag should have to do an hour of this. Might make people realise what the speedy tags really are for.
I think the problem is that, doing their level best in good faith to deal with the FIREHOSE OF CRAP, they get punch-drunk from repeatedly being hit over the head with the sum total of human stupidity and eventually scream "AIEEEE IT'S ALL CRAAAAP KILL IT ALL KILL IT WITH A STICK!!!"
Oh, I entirely agree. That's why I said an hour.
So A7 needs to be much less grey-area that it appears to be in practice. This will reduce stress for all.
Yes. It's just very hard to put into words people who shouldn't have articles. I always kind of figure that I'd rather the good was deleted at this stage than the bad was allowed to hang around longer than needed. The good will always end up on Wikipedia at some point. I always look at the way the article on Wayne Rooney started as a shining example that Wikipedia works.
Ron Ritzman wrote:
On 12/28/06, Luna lunasantin@gmail.com wrote:
Don't forget the various cleanup categories -- tags like {{wikify}} and {{notability}} don't lead to immediate deletion, but will eventually draw the attention of experienced editors who may decide to nominate a given article for deletion.
Still, it must take a lot of time to do the research necessary to determine "deletability". Therefore, with the exception of obvious BS, you would still have to see something in the article that prompts you to stop and do such research. The "prod" tag probably saves time in this respect. The only disadvantage with this is that it may cause good but inactive articles to get deleted simply because nobody removes an improperly added prod. That's why a "prod patrol" would be a good idea if there already isn't one.
And there is always [[Special:Random]], but I try to stay away from using that too often.
I,m sure that a common vision of "antideletionists" is of this geek with no life sitting around all day pressing the random button looking for deletable articles similar to the image of the antispammer sitting in front of his PC waiting for spam to come in so he can complain about it. (now of days he doesn't have to wait long :(
I will write a script that will randomly delete pages (ie. hit [[Special:Random]], make a random choice, and delete the page if true); how much will you pay me for it?