Lately there has been a whole series of controversies, scandals, and the like which have led to negative publicity for Wikipedia. In the middle of all that, Google announced a (vaporware so far) project to produce a community-authored information resource of some sort, which got some press as an alleged "Wikipedia-killer". From the media reaction to all this, it is very clear that Wikipedia's honeymoon is long over. A few years ago, the media, blogosphere, general public, and the ranks of Wikipedians themselves were full of people in their initial bloom of enthusiasm over how fantastically Wikipedia had succeeded in such a short time through a method of collective authorship that it seemed in theory couldn't possibly work. Then, the critics were in the minority and were easy to dismiss as people who "just don't get new media", or who had conflicts of interest or personal grudges of some sort that impaired their objective judgment. The pro-Wikipedia crowd had a genuine enthusiasm that was catching, and the anti-Wikipedia crowd was just an ugly bunch of party-poopers.
Now, everything is different. A victim of its own success, Wikipedia is now part of the "establishment", a major part of the world's information infrastructure rather than a neat little geeky project. Just about everybody in and out of it has moved on from their wave of enthusiasm to be jaded and cynical. The insiders circle their wagons against "attackers" and try to blame everything on trolls and harassers and banned users and attack sites and irresponsible reporters and pernicious memes and so on. The outsiders find it's more interesting and newsworthy to find and expose problems with Wikipedia than to talk about how great it is. Even a few Wikipedia- related bloggers who have previously stayed away from, denounced, or downplayed all of the "wikidrama" of previous internal controversies are now starting to sound alarms about how things are getting so bad that major change is needed:
http://original-research.blogspot.com/ http://wikip.blogspot.com/
Unfortunately, some of the commentary they're drawing is just more of the same insider reactions: to kill the messenger by denouncing them as irresponsible rumor-mongers (even though these are actually people who have largely sided with the establishment before against the drama-queens and sensationalists). This sort of reaction may have worked a while back when the critics were a small minority, but it won't work now. Even if some amount of the criticism is still overblown and unfounded, it is necessary to constructively engage the critics instead of dismissing or attacking them, or else the problems will keep getting worse in a never-ending spiral.
On 16/12/2007, Daniel R. Tobias dan@tobias.name wrote:
From the media reaction to all this, it is very clear that Wikipedia's honeymoon is long over. A few years ago, the media, blogosphere, general public, and the ranks of Wikipedians themselves were full of people in their initial bloom of enthusiasm ...
I'm really not sure this has faded as much as you make out. I mean, I stumbled across *yet another* of those "let's look at Wikipedia, isn't it really exciting" articles today entirely by accident - http://thephoenix.com/article_ektid52864.aspx
It does indeed have some criticism - but the tone is generally upbeat and favourable, and it doesn't seem materially much different to stuff I was reading a year or two back.
On 17/12/2007, Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com wrote:
On 16/12/2007, Daniel R. Tobias dan@tobias.name wrote:
From the media reaction to all this, it is very clear that Wikipedia's honeymoon is long over. A few years ago, the media, blogosphere, general public, and the ranks of Wikipedians themselves were full of people in their initial bloom of enthusiasm ...
I'm really not sure this has faded as much as you make out. I mean, I stumbled across *yet another* of those "let's look at Wikipedia, isn't it really exciting" articles today entirely by accident - http://thephoenix.com/article_ektid52864.aspx
It does indeed have some criticism - but the tone is generally upbeat and favourable, and it doesn't seem materially much different to stuff I was reading a year or two back.
There's probably just as much positive media attention as there was a couple of years ago, the problem is the negative attention that we get in addition to that, which has grown enormously. It's an inevitable part of being successful, but we can't just ignore it.
Dan Tobias wrote:
Lately there has been a whole series of controversies, scandals, and the like which have led to negative publicity for Wikipedia...
Much of what you say is true, although I'm not sure the situation is quite as dire as you paint it. (Yet.)
Certainly our reaction to the Durova affair and the Register article on it was painfully myopic and defensive. We deserved to get beaten up over that much worse than we did; I guess we got lucky. We may not be so lucky next time.
On Dec 17, 2007 1:27 AM, Steve Summit scs@eskimo.com wrote:
Certainly our reaction to the Durova affair and the Register article on it was painfully myopic and defensive. We deserved to get beaten up over that much worse than we did; I guess we got lucky. We may not be so lucky next time.
We've had administrators make mistakes before. The Register article associated with it was not that website's best work.
On 18/12/2007, Tony Sidaway tonysidaway@gmail.com wrote:
We've had administrators make mistakes before. The Register article associated with it was not that website's best work.
I'm sure it did its job marvellously, i.e. getting page and hence ad-banner hits.
- d.
On Dec 16, 2007 6:17 AM, Daniel R. Tobias dan@tobias.name wrote:
Lately there has been a whole series of controversies, scandals, and the like which have led to negative publicity for Wikipedia. In the middle of all that, Google announced a (vaporware so far) project to produce a community-authored information resource of some sort, which got some press as an alleged "Wikipedia-killer". From the media reaction to all this, it is very clear that Wikipedia's honeymoon is long over. A few years ago, the media, blogosphere, general public, and the ranks of Wikipedians themselves were full of people in their initial bloom of enthusiasm over how fantastically Wikipedia had succeeded in such a short time through a method of collective authorship that it seemed in theory couldn't possibly work. Then, the critics were in the minority and were easy to dismiss as people who "just don't get new media", or who had conflicts of interest or personal grudges of some sort that impaired their objective judgment. The pro-Wikipedia crowd had a genuine enthusiasm that was catching, and the anti-Wikipedia crowd was just an ugly bunch of party-poopers.
Now, everything is different. A victim of its own success, Wikipedia is now part of the "establishment", a major part of the world's information infrastructure rather than a neat little geeky project. Just about everybody in and out of it has moved on from their wave of enthusiasm to be jaded and cynical. The insiders circle their wagons against "attackers" and try to blame everything on trolls and harassers and banned users and attack sites and irresponsible reporters and pernicious memes and so on. The outsiders find it's more interesting and newsworthy to find and expose problems with Wikipedia than to talk about how great it is. Even a few Wikipedia- related bloggers who have previously stayed away from, denounced, or downplayed all of the "wikidrama" of previous internal controversies are now starting to sound alarms about how things are getting so bad that major change is needed:
http://original-research.blogspot.com/ http://wikip.blogspot.com/
Unfortunately, some of the commentary they're drawing is just more of the same insider reactions: to kill the messenger by denouncing them as irresponsible rumor-mongers (even though these are actually people who have largely sided with the establishment before against the drama-queens and sensationalists). This sort of reaction may have worked a while back when the critics were a small minority, but it won't work now. Even if some amount of the criticism is still overblown and unfounded, it is necessary to constructively engage the critics instead of dismissing or attacking them, or else the problems will keep getting worse in a never-ending spiral.
-- == Dan ==
I think it's important to keep perspective in all this.
One, the majority of the recent negative press coverage is due to one reporter and one Internet-focused news/feature/scandal website.
While it's unfortunate, the stories are not picking up legs in more traditional media and so forth.
Two, most of even that coverage has been of internal politics. Many people just don't care about that.
Three, the story with possible, legs, the Dornan one, so far lacks the most important part of a true scandal. Yes, a WMF person now turns out to have been less law-abiding than believed or assumed. The part that would cause true scandal would be a discovery that they then did something unethical or illegal to or with the WMF, which to date has not been alleged or suggested by anyone to date as far as I am aware.
All of these things are bad things, but in perspective, they aren't damaging the project all that much.
Encouraging our halo of critics is merely annoying. Causing widespread attention or press coverage or criticism outside our halo of usual critics is a legitimate issue, but one which has simply not sunk in that much.
Other than the usual knee-jerk Register/Slashdot readership reaction, none of this has gone anywhere.
We would more likely fail our institutional and community goals and integrity by attempting to act in a way to avoid any negative press and try to make all our critics happy all the time than we are to fail due to what's happened so far. We should neither ignore outside criticism when it points out valid problems nor conform to its myriad pressures without careful thought and assessment.
On 17/12/2007, George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com wrote:
While it's unfortunate, the stories are not picking up legs in more traditional media and so forth.
The real papers tend to call people before writing the story, e.g. http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/248315/ - where the main interest was a collateral damage block to a local ISP. Note the difference in tone to the Register story.
We would more likely fail our institutional and community goals and integrity by attempting to act in a way to avoid any negative press and try to make all our critics happy all the time than we are to fail due to what's happened so far. We should neither ignore outside criticism when it points out valid problems nor conform to its myriad pressures without careful thought and assessment.
Overreaction to the press has so far been the enemy of getting things right.
- d.