Folks might find the thread below to be of interest. One editor has already resolved to contact the press (no word on which particular part of the press as of yet).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Inciden...
Fixed subject, apologies.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Nathan nawrich@gmail.com Date: Jan 8, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Harvard law students accused of meatpuppetry in course assignment To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Folks might find the thread below to be of interest. One editor has already resolved to contact the press (no word on which particular part of the press as of yet).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Inciden...
Jimbo very bravely granted an interview to the BBC's Hardtalk program. It's a twenty minute televised grilling by a well-briefed journalist with a tendency to go for the jugular.
You can watch it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/progs/07/hardtalk/wales_31dec.ram
The interviewer dragged up a negative comparison previously made by Britanica between wikipedia and a public toilet. Jimbo, later in the interview, chose to return to the analogy and extend it a bit to compare wikipedia to a clear public toilet:
I transcribe, with the usual disclaimers as to accuracy
Jimbo: "It is very similar to, well as odd as the analogy might be, this idea of a public restroom, it really is that you have no idea who just cleaned the toilet [something inaudible about the "fancy hotel" for the interview?] but, you know what, I'm sure it's clean, right, because the hotel has a good reputation I don't need the name of the person who did it, right, I know there's processes in place and it seems perfectly fine" ....[interviewer is astonished at the bold comparison].....
Jimbo "It's a good clean public toilet"
Not sure how wise the self-depreciating humour is. It didn't exactly work out for [[Gerald Ratner]]....?
Doc
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 00:23 +0000, doc wrote:
Jimbo very bravely granted an interview to the BBC's Hardtalk program. It's a twenty minute televised grilling by a well-briefed journalist with a tendency to go for the jugular.
You can watch it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/progs/07/hardtalk/wales_31dec.ram
The interviewer dragged up a negative comparison previously made by Britanica between wikipedia and a public toilet. Jimbo, later in the interview, chose to return to the analogy and extend it a bit to compare wikipedia to a clear public toilet:
I transcribe, with the usual disclaimers as to accuracy
Jimbo: "It is very similar to, well as odd as the analogy might be, this idea of a public restroom, it really is that you have no idea who just cleaned the toilet [something inaudible about the "fancy hotel" for the interview?] but, you know what, I'm sure it's clean, right, because the hotel has a good reputation I don't need the name of the person who did it, right, I know there's processes in place and it seems perfectly fine" ....[interviewer is astonished at the bold comparison].....
Jimbo "It's a good clean public toilet"
Not sure how wise the self-depreciating humour is. It didn't exactly work out for [[Gerald Ratner]]....?
Doc
Thanks Doc for the link and transcription, anybody know if it's possible to watch it under Linux?
Ian [[User:Poeloq]]
I think the only way to beat combative interviewers and win over the public in those instances is to be humorous and self-deprecating. If they're out to attack you with hyperbole, beat them to it.
On Jan 8, 2008 4:52 PM, Ian A Holton poeloq@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 00:23 +0000, doc wrote:
Jimbo very bravely granted an interview to the BBC's Hardtalk program. It's a twenty minute televised grilling by a well-briefed journalist with a tendency to go for the jugular.
You can watch it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/progs/07/hardtalk/wales_31dec.ram
The interviewer dragged up a negative comparison previously made by Britanica between wikipedia and a public toilet. Jimbo, later in the interview, chose to return to the analogy and extend it a bit to compare wikipedia to a clear public toilet:
I transcribe, with the usual disclaimers as to accuracy
Jimbo: "It is very similar to, well as odd as the analogy might be, this idea of a public restroom, it really is that you have no idea who just cleaned the toilet [something inaudible about the "fancy hotel" for the interview?] but, you know what, I'm sure it's clean, right, because the hotel has a good reputation I don't need the name of the person who did it, right, I know there's processes in place and it seems perfectly
fine"
....[interviewer is astonished at the bold comparison].....
Jimbo "It's a good clean public toilet"
Not sure how wise the self-depreciating humour is. It didn't exactly work out for [[Gerald Ratner]]....?
Doc
Thanks Doc for the link and transcription, anybody know if it's possible to watch it under Linux?
Ian [[User:Poeloq]]
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
It wasn't a *horrible* interview......
On Jan 8, 2008 11:51 PM, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.com wrote:
I think the only way to beat combative interviewers and win over the public in those instances is to be humorous and self-deprecating. If they're out to attack you with hyperbole, beat them to it.
On Jan 8, 2008 4:52 PM, Ian A Holton poeloq@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 00:23 +0000, doc wrote:
Jimbo very bravely granted an interview to the BBC's Hardtalk program. It's a twenty minute televised grilling by a well-briefed journalist with a tendency to go for the jugular.
You can watch it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/progs/07/hardtalk/wales_31dec.ram
The interviewer dragged up a negative comparison previously made by Britanica between wikipedia and a public toilet. Jimbo, later in the interview, chose to return to the analogy and extend it a bit to
compare
wikipedia to a clear public toilet:
I transcribe, with the usual disclaimers as to accuracy
Jimbo: "It is very similar to, well as odd as the analogy might be,
this
idea of a public restroom, it really is that you have no idea who just cleaned the toilet [something inaudible about the "fancy hotel" for
the
interview?] but, you know what, I'm sure it's clean, right, because
the
hotel has a good reputation I don't need the name of the person who
did
it, right, I know there's processes in place and it seems perfectly
fine"
....[interviewer is astonished at the bold comparison].....
Jimbo "It's a good clean public toilet"
Not sure how wise the self-depreciating humour is. It didn't exactly work out for [[Gerald Ratner]]....?
Doc
Thanks Doc for the link and transcription, anybody know if it's possible to watch it under Linux?
Ian [[User:Poeloq]]
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 09/01/2008, Ian A Holton poeloq@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Doc for the link and transcription, anybody know if it's possible to watch it under Linux?
Should be possible using Real Media's linux client.
http://uk.real.com/player/select/
(Despite the uk in the URL, I believe you'll be redirected to the correct URL for your locale).
doc wrote:
Jimbo: "It is very similar to, well as odd as the analogy might be, this idea of a public restroom, it really is that you have no idea who just cleaned the toilet [something inaudible about the "fancy hotel" for the interview?] but, you know what, I'm sure it's clean, right, because the hotel has a good reputation I don't need the name of the person who did it, right, I know there's processes in place and it seems perfectly fine" ....[interviewer is astonished at the bold comparison].....
Jimbo "It's a good clean public toilet"
Not sure how wise the self-depreciating humour is. It didn't exactly work out for [[Gerald Ratner]]....?
Hmm, I thought it went over pretty well. :) I am not the originator of the concept of that response, but I don't know who said it first.
Jimmy Wales wrote:
doc wrote:
Jimbo: "It is very similar to, well as odd as the analogy might be, this idea of a public restroom, it really is that you have no idea who just cleaned the toilet [something inaudible about the "fancy hotel" for the interview?] but, you know what, I'm sure it's clean, right, because the hotel has a good reputation I don't need the name of the person who did it, right, I know there's processes in place and it seems perfectly fine" ....[interviewer is astonished at the bold comparison].....
Jimbo "It's a good clean public toilet"
Not sure how wise the self-depreciating humour is. It didn't exactly work out for [[Gerald Ratner]]....?
Hmm, I thought it went over pretty well. :) I am not the originator of the concept of that response, but I don't know who said it first.
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I've seen seasoned politicians made to look like dithering idiots in that particular interview format - it's a dragon's den.
So, I'd say appearing on it was bold, and you came through pretty intact, better than many professional media people would have, and certainly better than any other advocate of wikipeia would have. All credit for that.
However, self-deprecating humour, particularly with a soundbite ("Wikipedia is a toilet - says founder") isn't always a good idea. There was this guy by the name of [[Gerald Ratner]].....
Doc
On 09/01/2008, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
Hmm, I thought it went over pretty well. :) I am not the originator of the concept of that response, but I don't know who said it first.
Wikipedia never ceases to amaze me:
I type "wikipedia public toilet" into google, and one of the hits was this:
For anyone interested, the full transcript is now available here:
better than many professional media people would have
Don't you think that by now, with all the interviews and features he has done, Jimbo *is* effectively a professional media person?
On Jan 9, 2008 7:14 AM, doc doc.wikipedia@ntlworld.com wrote:
For anyone interested, the full transcript is now available here:
http://en.veropedia.com/resource/bbc_interview
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
On 09/01/2008, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.com wrote:
better than many professional media people would have
Don't you think that by now, with all the interviews and features he has done, Jimbo *is* effectively a professional media person?
Indeed, as far as I can tell, these kind of things appear to be Jimbo's full time job these days.
Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.com wrote:
better than many professional media people would have
Don't you think that by now, with all the interviews and features he has done, Jimbo *is* effectively a professional media person?
Indeed, as far as I can tell, these kind of things appear to be Jimbo's full time job these days.
Sadly, at least half-time. The other half of my time, I am answering emails. And the other half I am working on the design of the search project. And the other half... and... :)
Jimmy Wales wrote:
Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.com wrote:
better than many professional media people would have
Don't you think that by now, with all the interviews and features he has done, Jimbo *is* effectively a professional media person?
Indeed, as far as I can tell, these kind of things appear to be Jimbo's full time job these days.
Sadly, at least half-time. The other half of my time, I am answering emails. And the other half I am working on the design of the search project. And the other half... and... :)
I happened to accidentally stumble across the Jimbo interview on BBC News 24 when it was aired 31st December. And (I'm not just being nice cos he's listening) I think Jimmy did answer the questions well and certainly did Wikipedia no harm at all. As for the public toilet comparison, I thought that was humourous more than anything else, certainly attracting the viewer's attention and after all, any publicity is good publicity. In summary, don't worry too much about PR, I feel there is no issue with what Jimbo said in PR terms whatsoever. :)
G Donato
Jimmy Wales wrote:
Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.com wrote:
better than many professional media people would have
Don't you think that by now, with all the interviews and features he has done, Jimbo *is* effectively a professional media person?
Indeed, as far as I can tell, these kind of things appear to be Jimbo's full time job these days.
Sadly, at least half-time. The other half of my time, I am answering emails. And the other half I am working on the design of the search project. And the other half... and... :)
This clearly leaves one half-time in reserve for redisigning the arithmetic system.
Ec
On 10/01/2008, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Jimmy Wales wrote:
Sadly, at least half-time. The other half of my time, I am answering emails. And the other half I am working on the design of the search project. And the other half... and... :)
This clearly leaves one half-time in reserve for redisigning the arithmetic system.
And regularising English spelling ;-)
On 09/01/2008, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.com wrote:
Don't you think that by now, with all the interviews and features he has done, Jimbo *is* effectively a professional media person?
Indeed, as far as I can tell, these kind of things appear to be Jimbo's full time job these days.
It's a good thing he's good at it then, and that it helps us a *lot* ;-)
- d.
On Jan 9, 2008 4:51 AM, Tony Sidaway tonysidaway@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
Hmm, I thought it went over pretty well. :) I am not the originator of the concept of that response, but I don't know who said it first.
Wikipedia never ceases to amaze me:
I type "wikipedia public toilet" into google, and one of the hits was this:
Wow! Australia has a "National Continence Management Strategy"? I'm not sure whether that's funny or scary.
On 1/10/08, Elias Friedman elipongo@gmail.com wrote:
Wow! Australia has a "National Continence Management Strategy"? I'm not sure whether that's funny or scary.
I imagine it would be pretty useful for certain people.
Strangely enough, I'm pretty sure I've hit that article before by pressing 'random article'.
Steve
Elias Friedman wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 4:51 AM, Tony Sidaway tonysidaway@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
Hmm, I thought it went over pretty well. :) I am not the originator of the concept of that response, but I don't know who said it first.
Wikipedia never ceases to amaze me:
I type "wikipedia public toilet" into google, and one of the hits was this:
Wow! Australia has a "National Continence Management Strategy"? I'm not sure whether that's funny or scary.
That sort of thing happens when a country has a whole continence by itself.
Ec
fascinating. An instructor telling his class to try to form cabals to affect WP discussions. I'm glad we caught them at it. I refrain from making jokes about Harvard.,
On Jan 8, 2008 6:58 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Folks might find the thread below to be of interest. One editor has already resolved to contact the press (no word on which particular part of the press as of yet).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Inciden...
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I disagree that actually being the case here, but regardless, that clearly wasn't their intention. -- Ned Scott
On Jan 8, 2008, at 6:43 PM, David Goodman wrote:
fascinating. An instructor telling his class to try to form cabals to affect WP discussions. I'm glad we caught them at it. I refrain from making jokes about Harvard.,
How natural for the Ivy League. Real life cabalists become virtual ones.
On Jan 8, 2008 6:06 PM, Ned Scott ned@nedscott.com wrote:
I disagree that actually being the case here, but regardless, that clearly wasn't their intention. -- Ned Scott
On Jan 8, 2008, at 6:43 PM, David Goodman wrote:
fascinating. An instructor telling his class to try to form cabals to affect WP discussions. I'm glad we caught them at it. I refrain from making jokes about Harvard.,
WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
I strongly urge people on the mailing list to also look at that ANI link. Here's a perm link, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_notice...
Unless we are changing the definition of a cabal, that hardly describes these groups of students. One group even self-identified, and stated that they were presenting opinions about a dispute, for a class assignment. The other groups might simply not have thought of this, or didn't think it was a big deal. They caused no harm, and actually provided us with many good solutions to some existing disputes, from fresh, neutral minds.
They discussed things amongst themselves before hand, and carefully thought about how to present their ideas so that they would be best received. We do that on-wiki all the time, and not with the intent to manipulate, but simply understanding that how you present an idea is sometimes just as important as the idea itself. It's not much different than a micro-consensus being formed on one talk page, and then those editors going to a larger community discussion after having thought about what was discussed in the first discussion. It did not appear that any of them said anything they didn't actually believe, either as an individual or as a group.
This dispute didn't happen from the students, but more from a fear that came after discovering that they collaborated off-wiki. As [[User:Gladys j cortez]] said:
"I am of absolutely no consequence to this discussion, but the concern I see among the "regular" Wikipedians here is one of transparency. Had the participants announced their presence and intentions, as one group apparently did, I would imagine this would have been a non-issue. Gladys J Cortez01:42, 9 January 2008 (UTC)"
-- Ned Scott
On Jan 8, 2008, at 9:54 PM, Steven Walling wrote:
How natural for the Ivy League. Real life cabalists become virtual ones.
On Jan 8, 2008 8:43 PM, David Goodman dgoodmanny@gmail.com wrote:
fascinating. An instructor telling his class to try to form cabals to affect WP discussions. I'm glad we caught them at it. I refrain from making jokes about Harvard.,
Yeah, I mean AGF only applies to people that you like, right?
...
On 09/01/2008, David Goodman dgoodmanny@gmail.com wrote:
fascinating. An instructor telling his class to try to form cabals to affect WP discussions. I'm glad we caught them at it. I refrain from making jokes about Harvard.,
These are all the meatpuppets that we have found at Harvard, There may be many others but they haven't been discaavard.