On 12/21/06, Neil Harris
<usenet(a)tonal.clara.co.uk> wrote:
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
The notion that the numbers used in the Latin script are universal is
also a fallacy.
Thanks,
GerardM
Yes, but it's quite a good approximation to reality. For example, the
front pages of ar:, am:,he:, ru:, el:, th: and zh: are clear evidence
that use of ASCII Hindu-Arabic numerals is widespread in common
practice, even in cultures with their own distinct historic numeral
systems.
And if we really wanted to, we can also represent the same set of
decimal digits in other writing systems, for example Devanagari
numerals, since we already have the localization code to do this ready
to go.
I like Stephanie's suggestion of User:?????? <#2352562> as a display
format: we could quite easily arrange that User:#2352562 would be an
alias for User:?????? throughout the system, with ?????? remaining that
user's true name everywhere.
Thus, for the user "Examplename", User:Examplename would be their user
page on every wiki, with User_talk:Examplename being their discussion
page, and so on... but, for wikis where the script used in their name is
not one of the native scripts for that wiki,
[[User:Examplename|Examplename]] <[[User:Examplename|#425256]]>
would appear in every context where the machine-generated text
[[User:Examplename|Examplename]]
would have appeared before, and "#425256" (or its equivalent with the
decimal numerals in any other script) would also be usable in the
software as a synonym for their real-name throughout the SUL universe.
That is to say:
* User:#425256 would be a redirect to User:Examplename on every wiki.
* Blocking User:#425265 would have the effect of blocking User:Examplename
* Special:Contributions/#425265 would have the same result as
Special:Contributions/Examplename (and would display "User contributions
for [[User:Examplename]]" at the top on home-script wikis, and "User
contributions for [[User:Examplename]] <[[User:#425256|#425256]]>" at
the top on others...
Note that the numeric tags would only appear on ''system-generated''
text: no user would ever be required to use their alternative numeric
tag in any human context (unless they wanted to, of course).
Net effect:
* for most practical purposes, no visible change on any wiki, except in
the immediate context of a username with "foreign-script" characters
* no user will need to rename any of their accounts
* no user will need to create any nicknames if they don't want to
* most users won't even notice the change, since 99% of all editors tend
to have same-script names
* only formerly-unreadable "foreign script" names will appear with
numeric tags on any given wiki, yet
* either tags or names will work in any computer-input context such as
blocking or user page display, throughout the entire SUL universe, but
with the system always giving the true name display priority
Just to gild the lily a bit more, we could also add a bit of latitude
about what constitutes a "foreign" script: for example, if the community
on zh: agreed that they could distinguish Latin characters (which they
can in practice), or the community on en: was to agree that they could
generally distinguish and remember Greek and Cyrillic characters, the
software could be configured so that numeric tags could disappear on
usernames in those scripts within those wikis. Or, contrariwise, if a
community so desired, numeric tags could appear on all system-displayed
usernames, even their own.
I think this can be a fair and readily implementable system, both
technically and socially. It solves the problem en.wiki was
addressing (clumsily) with the username policy, and is fully
compatible with SUL. It displays no bias for or against any
particular character set. In other words, I now expect that the SUL
implementation team will account for this proposal, or something very
much like it, when SUL goes live. If they're not considering it now,
I for one think they should. (Although I like the earlier suggestion
of salting the account IDs to avoid silly status games over longevity
:-) )
I'd just like to express my sadness at the lack of co-operative spirit
and foresight shown by some defenders of the en.wiki username policy,
and the lack of assumption of good faith all around. While I
personally dislike the policy for its heavyhandedness, it's clear that
there is a problem that it addresses, and does so in one of the very
few ways available *in the current technical environment.* What my
fellow en.wikipedians are failing to deal with properly is that the
technical environment is about to change, soon and inevitably. SUL is
not going to just go away, because it's too useful to too many people.
Plans need to be made now to deal with the major sociotechnical
changes that will accompany SUL's introduction. One of those changes
must be a revision of the en.wiki username policy. That will come
about through discussion and (cross-)community consensus, so flinging
what amount to accusations of bad faith around, right off the bat, is
less than helpful, to put it mildly. We need to shed more light and
less heat on this subject, as soon as we can. I hope we can come
together, as a community of communities, and rise to the challenge.
-Michael Noda
Thanks, Michael!
As I understand it, the current en: Latin-script-only policy is a sad
necessity caused by the need to fight the continual stream of vandalism
directed at en:, combined with the limitations of most en: editors at
distinguishing and remembering non-Latin names in general, rather than a
manifestation of cultural imperialism imposed for social reasons.
This is also a policy that other wikis may be forced to adopt at some
point in the future, for the same reason, when they get large enough
that their level of vandal account creation gets sufficiently high (for
example, can most readers of Arabic read Chinese, or vice versa?)
If a technically feasible system to reduce the social and administrative
difficulties of dealing with editors with different-script names could
be put into place, I think the need for this policy would disappear, and
the policy itself would simply evaporate.
-- Neil